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Hydraulic Fluid in engine oil??? D4H 3204DI

Discussion in 'Dozers' started by PEVO, Dec 3, 2018.

  1. PEVO

    PEVO Well-Known Member

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    Posted before about finding way too much fluid in the crankcase of my D4h #8PB01320. I just assumed in was diesel...but due to the thanksgiving holiday and a daughters wedding in the same week...i just didnt have time to fart around with it. Looking at it this last weekend better this time, the extra fluid in the engine oil does not smell like diesel and does not seem to be thinned down at all. Judging by the amount of extra fluid on the dipstick...im thinking a gallon or more has found its way in. (its 1 1/2 inches + over full)

    What ever happened...happened quickly for engine oil was changed about 6 hours ago... and oil level rose up in the last 2-3 hours or so of operation. When i checked the hydraulic oil level site glass, its now showing low where as it was full before. Ive had no leaks or hose blowouts to loose that amount of fluid that quickly.

    Transmission fluid level has stayed the same.

    So heres the question, how could i be getting hydraulic oil in my engine oil? OR is it even physically possible???

    Thoughts, suggestions?

    Thanks
     
  2. AllDodge

    AllDodge Senior Member

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    The hydraulic pump is leaking
     
  3. Welder Dave

    Welder Dave Senior Member

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    I'm curious how a leaking hyd. pump would let hyd. fluid into the engine.
     
  4. kshansen

    kshansen Senior Member

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    Did not take time to look into how the hyd. pump is mounted to this machine but if it is mounted to the engine, say timing cover or flywheel housing, a bad seal on the pump shaft could leak into the engine.
     
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  5. Vetech63

    Vetech63 Senior Member

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    Or a pump mounted to a wet flywheel housing. wait.....that would overfill the tranny. NEED MORE COFFEE>>>>>>>>>>
     
    mg2361 likes this.
  6. PEVO

    PEVO Well-Known Member

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    Anybody have a teardown procedure for removing a hydraulic pump off this particular dozer? D4H cat 3204DI 8PB01320. Also can this pump be rebuilt (seals) vs. buying a reman or new? Thanks for any and all info.

    I still have yet to even go out and crawl all over the dozer and find where the pump is actually mounted.
     
  7. AllDodge

    AllDodge Senior Member

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    My D3 also has the 3204 and the pump is mounted on the left side and driven by gears behind the timing cover. My timming cover is off here and there is a nut on the end holding the gear (upper right). There should be 2 bolts and nuts which fasten the pump, so remove them and the pump should slide out the rear

    D3 Hyd pump.jpg

    D3 Hyd pump.jpg 3204.jpg
     
  8. kshansen

    kshansen Senior Member

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    Going by S/N posted attached should be the pump:
     

    Attached Files:

  9. PEVO

    PEVO Well-Known Member

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    So quickly looking over these PDFs the pump is mounted to the flywheel? How would a leaky hydro pump leak back into the crankcase from the flywheel?
     
  10. AllDodge

    AllDodge Senior Member

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    Might be that way and if so, I don't see how its connected to the flywheel, the flywheel housing looks the same as mine, so don't see the room. If it is then I have no idea how hydraulic fluid makes it to the motor unless rear seal is leaking. If rear seal is leaking then the transmission fluid/oil should be getting lower

    Have a look and see where its located
     
  11. PEVO

    PEVO Well-Known Member

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    what sux is i have a 5 day week job that takes up mon-fri and with the current time change...its dark or dusk when i get home. Since nothing gets done outside wise during the week, my weekends are taken up doing other chit (and honey-dos etc..) So the dozer sits idle. + i have a elderly parent to attend to...so my wore out Tonka Toy D4H Dozer gets no love. Hence my post...researching all i can (while at work :)) so i dont have to spend hours crawling over, in and under the dozer trying to figure out whats going wrong.

    Please keep the suggestions and info coming

    Thanks again
     
  12. Dave Neubert

    Dave Neubert Well-Known Member

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    I think the pump mounts to the flywheel housing that is wet from tranny oil so it would have to be the rear seal leaking but make sure the flywheel housing is not over full I think it is just gravity feed back to the tranny . could have a blockage in the return line. If it is pumped back by a scavenge pump check strainer to see if it is clogged
     
  13. Vetech63

    Vetech63 Senior Member

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    You just need to tell your woman that your going to have to move her $hit down the priority list! LOL ( make sure your not within striking distance);)
     
  14. kshansen

    kshansen Senior Member

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    Yes hide all heavy frying pans or sharp objects and don't for get to mention Vetech63 when you do! Oklahoma is not far from Texas so maybe she could go "discuss it in person"!
     
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  15. heymccall

    heymccall Senior Member

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    I'm confused. First suggests timing cover mounted pump. Second says rear mounted. Can't find timing cover mounted pump in parts manual. Still haven't found my D4H. They have it around here somewhere.
     
  16. AllDodge

    AllDodge Senior Member

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    I mentioned cover because we both have the same motor. Mine is mounted on the cover, and the flywheel can be used with a internal gear which runs on the internal teeth of the flywheel. When looking your motor up in SIS I can fine the pump but not it mounted to the flywheel or other.

    Maybe Nigel can find it
     
  17. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    This gives me every impression it mounts on the back end, not the timing cover. Procedure is not very clear but when it says first up to remove the floor plate and the rear bottom guard it sure as hell doesn't sound like it is at the front of the engine.
    There isn't even an outline drawing showing what fits where.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. kshansen

    kshansen Senior Member

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    Going by the S/N it sure looks like the hydraulic pump is driven off a gear in the torque converter housing. If that is the case leaking pump seal would push oil into the converter/transmission system not the engine. See parts break down attached:

    Might not be obvious at first but check the part numbers 19 and 24 there are two pump drives located on the rear of the converter housing. I'm assuming one is for the implement pump and the other is for the transmission/converter pump.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
  19. Mark250

    Mark250 Senior Member

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  20. kshansen

    kshansen Senior Member

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    Well that confirms my thoughts above!:)

    Now just wondering if adding some oil dye to the compartment that is suspected to be putting oil into engine would be worth while to prove where the oil was coming from? Say blue dye in hydraulic and red in transmission?. Assuming engine oil is fairly fresh and clean it might solve the question. That sure would not work with an old 2 stroke Detroit!:p
     
    Vetech63 likes this.