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How much for this demo???

Discussion in 'Demolition' started by tnc110, Mar 28, 2013.

  1. CM1995

    CM1995 Super Moderator

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    Fastdirt, I don't see how you could make any money charging $3500 just for the demo.:confused: That's a large house with a lot of debris to load out not to mention the foundation walls, footings and those stem walls at the rear. I think he would have a minimum of 2 days to get the structure down, taking care not to spill any debris down the mountain. Load out would depend on how fast the trucks turn.

    Clients in my area always want a turn key price. It would be nice to be able to put the liability of hauling and disposal on the client as that is the most expensive part of residential demo but that doesn't work in my area.

    Tnc110, only having 3 dump trucks with a 1.5 hr round trip is only going to give you 15 loads a day in an 8 hr day. An 18 CY dump is only going to haul 12-13 CY of demo debris unless you are rough on the truck and pack it in there, in other words don't figure a full 18 CY of debris per truck. At 12 CY per truck, that's only going to give you 180 CY a day of hauling.
     
  2. tnc110

    tnc110 Well-Known Member

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    Same here...gotta be a turnkey price. I am bidding for a contractor who is bidding the whole project, including construction on new home. He is probably bidding against 2 other contractors. (this architect typically works off 3 bids) I am probably 1 of 3-5 excavators bidding. I want the job, but have enough other work to keep me busy...not going to lose my asss on this! I'd rather be high and roll the dice, then get the job and be sweating it.

    I was figuring 12 yds net on the 18 yd trucks. With your formula that puts me at about 45 loads. I'll figure on 60. There is some cross tie walls and deck that has to come off as well.
     
  3. tnc110

    tnc110 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for all the help guys, probably going to throw a big number at it and roll the dice.
     
  4. CM1995

    CM1995 Super Moderator

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    I would say that's adequate. There are 8 standard bricks more or less per sf plus mortar, so that sounds right.

    Here's what I would do -

    Figure your amount of debris.
    Estimate the tonnage of your hard core materials - brick, concrete, etc
    Figure your trucking time
    Figure your equipment time - demo and load out. Demo part goes quick it's the clean-up and load out that takes time.
    Figure your soft costs - do you need to buy a business license, permit, etc.
    Put your profit margin on it.

    The profit margin is where I always adjust my bids at. In this economy I would love to be getting 15% or more O&P combined but in order to get bids it's closer to the 9-10% range. The last two jobs I came in second on my O&P was 14.5%.:cool2

    Just something to consider.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2013
  5. Colorado Digger

    Colorado Digger Senior Member

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    If you are bidding against a few other dirt guy's it will probably go to the low bidder. With that much material going to the landfill, your disposal and trucking will be the biggest portion of the job. Based on experience, picking all the wood out of the brick is going to take time. I would pencil 4 working days in for the work. A 160 is about the smallest hoe I would want to work with on that house. I don't think I would get involved for $3500. Bid it to make money and not to wear your equipment out for free.

    Good Luck, Cd
     
  6. Turbo21835

    Turbo21835 Senior Member

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    Little secret. In this economy the guys doing environmental work are getting a minimum 15% on jobs, plus an additional mark up of 10-15% on materials. Gravy work if you have the qualifications, and the connections.
     
  7. DGODGR

    DGODGR Senior Member

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    I strongly urge you to consider the dumpsters. I can never see how using dump trucks can compete with dumpsters. The majority of most demos are light material...volume, not weight. It will cost the same money to haul 18 yards or 40. Why only haul 18? Furthermore, you can have several dumpsters staged, on site, for you to load while the full ones are in transit. The brick and concrete will probably be closer, if not cheaper, to haul with your own truck. You may also find it less expensive to haul the brick and concrete to a recycler. I doubt it would be cheaper to hire out a recycler to demo and dispose the brick because all the roofing and interior would have to be removed by hand, and in stages. Too labor intensive.
    One other thing that nobody has mentioned. It's a dirty word but here it is. ASBESTOS! I'm not sure of the structures age (looks relatively new so may not be an issue) but I bet you will have to get an asbestos survey before you can get a demo permit. If your concerned about all the debris being required to go to the landfill than I bet you will be required to get the Asbestos survey too. That will be around $1,000 alone. If the results are positive the numbers could possibly go through the roof for a house that size.
     
  8. CM1995

    CM1995 Super Moderator

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    The jobs I quoted above are for sitework for a discount store. I have another one coming up this week to bid, I have trimmed the margins back to 10% as I need to fill the schedule.;)

    Environmental work is something I have wanted to get into. Unit cost work is nice and profitable as I assume a lot of this type of work is.

    Very good advice. I agree I wouldn't haul demo debris in dump trucks either as I would never get the job or go broke hauling it. It depends on the job, location, etc whether I haul my hardcore in dump trucks or dumpsters - but I don't have a dump truck anymore so that also factors into the equation.

    In my area residential demo's don't require an asbestos survey but commercial does. If this job requires an asbestos survey, the GC/builder should be the one that has to foot that bill and hiring a firm to abate it if it is present. Also exclude ANY hazardous material abatement, removal, transportation or disposal in your quote. I don't do asbestos work and exclude it, putting that burden on the owner or GC. I seriously doubt this house in question has any asbestos but let the GC handle the paperwork.
     
  9. Colorado Digger

    Colorado Digger Senior Member

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    So how much did this job go for anyway?
     
  10. JBGASH

    JBGASH Senior Member

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    If it went for the 3500.00 range, I would not want any part of that. I have never bid any demo, but from a gut feeling I can tell you I think $50,000.00 would seem more in the ballpark for everything that it would take to do that and dispose of the debris. Maybe I am missing something here.
     
  11. Fastdirt

    Fastdirt Senior Member

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    3500 for two days work is good money for an owner operator like myself. Even if it took 2 1/2 days I wouldnt cry.. Let the customer pay the dumpsters. 1 machine 1 laborer 1 equipment transport. You dont need two machines or more people. I could have that house in pile by lunch time while loading dumpsters. Then its just loading dumpsters. Maybe 20 cans. I see house demos alot with big machines him-hawwin around for days on demos. 90 percent of the house demos I do are one day deals start to straw. There are several owner operators who bid demos cheap. If xou want the job you have to think about that. I mean cmon you dont need a laser or measuring tape and its easy on the machine minus the airborne debris.
     
  12. Colorado Digger

    Colorado Digger Senior Member

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    With what size machine? I think you are way low on your pricing. Maybe it is much different in your neck of the woods. I would not expect even my best hoe hands to have a house down that quick. For one, the material should be sorted. Secondly, all the brick could probably be crushed or ground on site so that we need to be separated out. I do quite a bit of demo and have the right tools and feel like there is quite a bit more work involved in a 7500 sq/ft house demo than $3500.00.

    Just my opinion,CD
     
  13. dirty4fun

    dirty4fun Senior Member

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    The first house I tore down was about 1500 sq. ft. and had an old two plus garage. I got $3000 for that, one. No way would i want 7500 sq. ft. for $3500. The last house I tore down was 3500 sq. ft. full of fire damaged furniture and more beds than any house should have. It took two and half days to knock down and load into drop boxes, and 1 1/2 days more to remove concrete, and level the lot. I bid the job for $9000 drop boxes and a a few loads of dirt cost $4000.
     
  14. CM1995

    CM1995 Super Moderator

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    I agree CD, I don't see how one can come out taking that house down and loading out the debris for $3500 just in equipment and labor, regardless of who is paying for trucking and disposal. Sure one could have the main structure down in a day but you still have the footings and foundations to remove once you remove the structure debris. There is no way one could take down a 7500 SF house by lunch and load dumpsters at the same time, especially considering the fact one has to take great care to not spill debris down the mountainside that would result in expensive manual labor to remove.

    Just my $.02.;)
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2013
  15. Landclearer

    Landclearer Senior Member

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    Any updates on what the job went for?

    Chris
     
  16. 312King

    312King Well-Known Member

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    Fastdirt

    Couple flaws in your theory there buddy. Im a owner operator and could probly Work cheaper then any body because everything i own is paid for but in no way would i ever Work that cheap. If i couldn't make 10 to 12 grand on that job wouldn't touch it. If they supposedly paid 1.2 million they have money so why Work do cheap. You are the guys i hate who screw the industry up that used to Produce a good profit. Plus demo isn't easy on a machine. Breaking Concrete out isn't easy on buckets waking around on debris risk somthing coming up and stabbing hydrlines. Stuff happens . Your ignorant to take a job that cheap
     
  17. Colorado Digger

    Colorado Digger Senior Member

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    I tend to agree. I wonder what happened to the guy that started the thread? I don't believe this job could be done for $3500.00. Why you would even think that, is a problem. Without starting an arguement it is interesting to see other guy's perspective on jobs such as these.

    Regards,CD
     
  18. Oxbow

    Oxbow Senior Member

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    I was once told that you're worst competition is that guy that is about to go under. I agree! I would want $3500 just to cover liablility insurance and overhead and that size of project.
     
  19. DGODGR

    DGODGR Senior Member

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    The OP has not replied to your question regarding what it went for. The $3500 came from Fastdirt's comment about what he would charge for that demo.:eek: It would be interesting to hear about what it went for. I can't see doing it for $3,500 myself (and I have LOW overhead). I can't speak for everyone else but I, for one, am certainly not in this business for the practice anymore.
     
  20. CM1995

    CM1995 Super Moderator

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    I was going to post that, thanks for doing so. ;)

    Same as you, I have low overhead too but I wouldn't take on that job for that price. Risk=reward in the business world, the more risk the more reward.

    Speaking of OH, I too run as lean as possible nowadays. At one time I had a nice office with a conference room, reception area, etc. That all ended in '08 and what I have found out since then is it's not needed. Now my office is my house and I have an arrangement for a shop and equipment parking that doesn't cost anything. I meet people on the job or just use email and phone calls to get jobs. Overhead adds up really quick and if you don't watch it, it will steal every bit of your profit and then some.:cool2