Help a new guy buy a used dozer

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[TimT]

I think you want a dozer... if you can get one in your price range and it will move and function, then get yourself one.They are nice to have, and fun. If it breaks down, you just spend more, sell it, or scrap/parts it out. Any machine is a risk, but you run and fix your 580... the dozer is no different. For the work you describe.. an 8 or 10 ton machine will do a lot of work. I know my 450C will do a lot for me anyway. Its a 16,000 lb machine.

 

[DMiller]

Can honestly state if you are willing to work on a machine considerably you can buy the older less expensive and off brand machines but they could become a money pit at any point in the operation. I was considering a bigger machine to remove some locust trees and cut in a pond, by the time I get it, buy the fuel, pay any upset breakdowns that come along I can contract to a regular contractor that does it for a living and have it done in half or less the time, for less money.

 

[schmiddr2]

I do want a dozer because I think I'd find a lot more uses for it than I already have planned, like I did with the 580. Having unlimited use of a machine (if it's working) is a good feeling but I think I'm going to try to get by without a dozer for now. I'm going to ask the guy with a dozer to do some of the steep grade stuff and then I'll do the rest with the 580 and Kubota. Not going to enjoy it as much doing it this way, but I should save a few thousand.

Thank you everyone. I appreciate the advice of people who work with HE. I learned a lot of details about what's it's like to buy and own a dozer, I'm not as jealous as I was.

 

[DrewAbt]

FWIW I bought a 53 year old cat d7E a few months ago for a building project that I'm undergoing. I looked for awhile for the right Dozer and found an old but good one with a lot of life left. I cut in a long road and moved a lot of dirt for the building site already. Probably did about $15k worth of work and I got about $18k into the machine and fuel. When I'm all done improving the property I will have roughly $25k worth of work done and still should have a $15,000-$20,000 dollar machine. It's nothing to find an old used cat that has another 100-300 hours worth of life left in it. My Dozer probably realistically has thousands of hours left in it. At least probably 2000 in the undercarriage alone.
I wouldn't of wanted to do it any other way myself. When I'm done I will probably see if I can make a little money with it from the local farmers around here. Clearing woods, building ponds and removing fence rows.
The key is to find the right machine.
Hope you can do the same
Drew

 

[dirthog]

I've probably mislead about cutting down a hill (could mean anything). It's really just taking down the hilltop, about 5ft deep and 100ft x 150ft.

I've been looking around and I see the big old machines FS; the idea of them is great - 30K+ pounds, drop the blade and keep going no matter what. But every part of owning it becomes a bigger and more expensive job. Plus this is hilltop and maneuverability is important.

Maybe a middle ground. 20K pound or so. like this? https://nashville.craigslist.org/hvo/d/dozer-d5-cat/6391236094.html

You do realize that is almost 2800 cubic yards of material that's compacted they way it is in the hill it will end up about 30% more once you dig it out.

 

[Kevin McCarty]

I planned to rent a dozer but have determined the cost will be too high for the large projects I have planned. I need to cut down a hill to create more flat land, remove a bunch of trees (also have a Case 580B to help with roots), grade some very rocky earth, cut in a driveway. Local Sunbelt quoted me about $2,200 delivered w/tax for a week for a JD 650J (real nice machines, so I've heard). With my work interfering with progress I may need it for a month. No good. So, if I wanted to buy a used dozer and take a more time with it, what should I get for less than $15K (closer to $10K preferred) what should I get? I understand whatever I buy will may need a few thousand dollars in parts/repairs over the year I plan to keep it (may keep it longer if it proves as useful as my backhoe).

My initial searching has lead me toward a Case 450C (bumper pull at only 12-13K pounds is a plus). Prices are reasonable and I have a large local dealer that has been good with 580B parts. I changed the brakes, replaced ring gear, replaced axle bearing, removed cylinders and hoses on the 580B. So I have some ability with HE. I really need help with what brands/models are reliable, and what to look and listen for when testing (some very specific details would be great). I would prefer to take someone with me who knows these things in and out, but I don't have that kind of support.

For instance: https://bgky.craigslist.org/hvo/d/case-450c-dozer/6344639237.html

Thanks for your help. Just trying to not make a bad buy.

schmiddr2, I'm in the same situation, but I'm going to do Ritchie Bros auctions and do a good prebuy, history from manufacturer etc. Go look at auction results. In my experience a lot of equipment dealers source and resell from auctions. Even though I'm green on owning a dozer, I've hauled heavy and own trucks for a long time and seen all types of earth moving pieces and what they look and feel like. When you own, you must think of repairs and for me, I'll try to find one that's had some of the major items done with low hours after repair.

k

 

[schmiddr2]

You do realize that is almost 2800 cubic yards of material that's compacted they way it is in the hill it will end up about 30% more once you dig it out.

No, I did not know how much. I just figured it would be a lot. I am going to look at a sheepsfoot roller today. Plan to move some dirt, spread it to about 8-10" thick, spray it with water, then compact it down. Seems like I'm going to repeat this process a few hundred times.

 

[schmiddr2]

schmiddr2, I'm in the same situation, but I'm going to do Ritchie Bros auctions and do a good prebuy, history from manufacturer etc. Go look at auction results. In my experience a lot of equipment dealers source and resell from auctions. Even though I'm green on owning a dozer, I've hauled heavy and own trucks for a long time and seen all types of earth moving pieces and what they look and feel like. When you own, you must think of repairs and for me, I'll try to find one that's had some of the major items done with low hours after repair.

k

Seems like a good plan. I've never really looked into auctions as I assumed I would be bidding against; dealers, shade tree mechanics, contractors, etc. and not really end up with such an amazing deal as I would hope for at auction.

Also, there is no way I could go to an auction and come home with something in my designated budget.

 

[Welder Dave]

Sometimes the older stuff at auctions goes real cheap because the contractors don't want it.

 

[DrewAbt]

The key to the auction stuff is finding a machine that was owned by a NON-PROFIT entity. Mine was owned by a county landfill. A city,county,state etc machine that was serviced regularly and non run to death to make a buck is the one to get. An ex military machine would also be good. I've seen some county machines with low hours go pretty low for what they are. They usually have had an easy life compared to ones that run "under the gun" like the big companies do to make a profit with them.

 

[JS300]

Some of the auction sites like Brinkleys and Purpewave have a “previous auctions” section were you can see what equipment brought at auction. Kind of interesting to look through. Sometimes high sometimes low makes you wonder.

 

[Kevin McCarty]

Guys, you are absolutely right. Ritchie bros has the previous auction prices of what's been sold. It's helped and if you watch models and years, they always sell about the same. I have my budget.

 

[Kevin McCarty]

Seems like a good plan. I've never really looked into auctions as I assumed I would be bidding against; dealers, shade tree mechanics, contractors, etc. and not really end up with such an amazing deal as I would hope for at auction.

Also, there is no way I could go to an auction and come home with something in my designated budget.

I think you might be surprised. You can go get a good used dumptruck, Mack, Freightliner, Western Star or Pete with either a cummins N14, damn reliable engine and easy work on or Detroit 12.7 with no emissions hassles and a cost of 5K to overhaul parts included.

Emission repairs can set you back 5K fast, so stay pre-emmision engines. EGR valves can cost 2K to replace, the EGR cooler on a DD15 is 2400 for the part..... 1800 for the labor if your're lucky and they don't break the lines going back to the transmission, and the diesel particulate filter is 800 to clean and certify, 600 for the injection nozzle for diesel spray regeneration and 2K for the control system, again, if you're lucky and how do I know these prices?.... It's easy to see why Cat stopped making new Class 8 truck engines.

There are 51 dump trucks that sold from 0-6 months ago, from 12-16000, with good mileage, up to 2006. Ritchie bros.

Detroit 12.7
Cummins N14
Cat C12 (damn fine engine) C13 or 3406 (no C15 Acert)
Mack E7

If you're just getting your CDL, there is so much you don't know and my advice is keep the emotion out of it, shiny can be lipstick on a pig or old can be a good deal like the gentleman said about not for profit and good maintenance.

Put it all on paper and let the facts determine your course of action, and get a pre-buy inspection. After you buy it's yours.

Just like the guys advise me to ask an expert for cutting in a road in steep terrain, you can damn sure bet I will do what they recommend. 'Cause I don't know what I don't know.

k

 

[Kevin McCarty]

Don't worry who you're bidding against.... it doesn't matter. Know you budget, don't go over, research early, inspect a few and buy one. Going to a used truck dealer will not get you any more peace of mind than you doing your own leg work. You want to give 30+% to a stranger?
k

 

[schmiddr2]

I have hired the guy with the D5G to push out the stumps and fill in the holes. From watching him so far, he is having to work them from all sides. So I've begun using my 580 to dig and break roots to help speed him up. After seeing what the D5G can do I figure I'd want something twice as large, and therefore will not be buying a dozer anytime soon. The Case 450C was not going to even be close to big enough. Thanks to everyone for helping me not make that mistake.

I don't have to truck the dirt anywhere, so a dump truck is not going to help. This first project is basically just rough grading a hill top. May rent another backhoe so I can run it harder than I do mine if I need to move a large amount of dirt.

 

[DMiller]

Weight becomes your friend, your enemy and your use cost level. Parts on bigger machines cost bigger money, older machines will tend to obsolesce where parts become thin and those remaining will draw premium pricing. A really heavy machine as a D7E or G, even to a D8 any series or a huge loader like a 977K or L will eat fuel like a pro, demand maintenance like clockwork and require a specialty hauler or permits and heavier equipment to move.

 

[schmiddr2]

I agree, that's why I'm not doing it. My bank account was getting scared.

Here is the work going on. There was a house and 50 or so trees. And here you can see my new sheepsfoot as well.

 

[DMiller]

Lot of scrubby stuff, a large dozer could make short work of but also tears a lot up. Looks decent so far I would not worry too much on time pressure.

 

[schmiddr2]

Thanks to everyone who offered expertise and opinion. I rented a Deere 650J from Sunbelt. Was not cheap, $2,200 for a week, but I got everything done that I wanted to and even started a new project. The 650J was so easy to drive, 30 minutes in and I was comfortable and efficient enough. Still, it didn't remove trees very easily if they were larger than 10" diameter, but it was so easy to use I didn't really care. Burned through about 50 gallons of diesel in the 40 hours of use. All in all I'd say it's a good dozer for an acre of dirt with few trees.