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GOOSENECK VS TAG TRAILER

Discussion in 'Trailers' started by soapstoneguy, Dec 12, 2019.

  1. soapstoneguy

    soapstoneguy Well-Known Member

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    Hey guys,
    I have a 2014 ram 5500 and I've read pros and cons about gooseneck vs tag trailers but my question is, I'm looking at a tag trailer 25,900gvwr and I have a 16,000lb tractor I want to pull it with. Will this be too big and too much weight on my ass end (hitch) if I go with a tag or bumper pull trailer? I have a pintle hitch receiver of course and don't really want to go to a gooseneck because I need the bed of my pickup as well but will sacrifice if it is too heavy on my ass end.
    Input is appreciated! Thanks and happy Holidays!
     
  2. Spud_Monkey

    Spud_Monkey Senior Member

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    What is weight of trailer empty? I wouldn't put 26k on the bumper of class 5 truck just because of the frame of the truck or the hitch system couldn't hold it and if it could it wouldn't last long. More control with gooseneck with traction on drive tires less weight pulling up steer tires, easier to maneuver, and any truck bed part you lose in storage can be had in extra trailer length. Got to understand when trailers are built they are built on two formulas maybe more, 60/40 or 70/30 basically 60% or 70% of trailer weight is balanced between the axles on the trailer and where the trailer connects on tow vehicle and the remainder is put on the trailer axles added with whatever the weight is between the 60 or 70%. The 30 or 40% may act as cantilever to the formula but not much.
    25,900 GVWR divided by 60 or 70% then divided by two equals 7,770 lbs or 9,065 lbs can your truck hold that much weight on the bumper? Lastly whatever state you are in they have weight limit per inch width on your drive tires and I hope you have a CDL to play with all this weight too...
     
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  3. redneckracin

    redneckracin Senior Member

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    For a 5500 ram I would go GN and call it good. A dump truck or tractor generally has the hitch very close to the rear axle. The light duty pickups (yeah I still consider a 5500 a light duty truck) have the hitch point much farther back from the rear axle. I just looked up the specs on a 2019 Ram 5500 C&C crew cab, 4x4 84" cab to axle and they only have a 13,500 lb rear axle. I would prefer a GN with my little International 4700 for that type of weight FWIW.
     
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  4. Mobiltech

    Mobiltech Senior Member

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    I have a 2015 ram 5500. I have a 25000 lb gooseneck trailer I pull with a 22000 lb telehandler on it and it handles it very well.
    I have pulled a 21000 lb bumper hitch trailer with 15000 lb load also and it wasn’t too bad. If you load it right and have good brakes it will do it but the gooseneck is definitely more stable. Just don’t get in a hurry.
     
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  5. soapstoneguy

    soapstoneguy Well-Known Member

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    Trailer weight is 5500lbs empty. Oregon is pretty lax with some of the law around here. Have a buddy with a 32ft gooseneck that hauls 2 tractors with implements hooked up to them with his 3500 and cops could care less when he goes by. Only bad part to a gooseneck is I have a 12ft bed on my pickup which works great for being able to haul our other tools and excess material from jobs.
     
  6. Spud_Monkey

    Spud_Monkey Senior Member

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    I took a 3/4 plate of steel and had it bent to make a hitch that slid in the frame on back of my International with 12 bolts going through the frame to hold it on. Will take on 30k no problem though wouldn't push it past 40k pounds though.

    Sounds like time to shorten the bed which I assume is flatbed cause there is no truck bed of that length and get the bumper pull close to the axle as possible if you are going to go bumper pull with this. I pulled a 12' x 40' mobile home with a F450 and weighed in around 18k plus on bumper pulled. Pulled pretty good.
     
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  7. soapstoneguy

    soapstoneguy Well-Known Member

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    I only have about 6ft from center of my rear axle to where the receiver is and trailer would hook up...is that too much of a distance for that trailer? I know the tractor itself weighs 11500-13000lbs and the plow is 3,000lbs. so if the tractor was all the way up to the front of the trailer I figure the tractor weight may be evenly dispersed (split the tractor in half and you have 7k lbs in the front half, 7k in the back half) then 3k on the plow over the beaver tail portion so I'd have roughly 7k lbs from the hitch to the front axle on the trailer and the rest on the trailer...sound about right?
     
  8. Spud_Monkey

    Spud_Monkey Senior Member

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    I would consider not too far back, but that's me from my experience with towing. Lets see
    1650 empty trailer tongue weight
    3500 of tractor tongue weight due to split of first 7k between it and trailer axles
    7k on the axles plus 3500 that was split
    3k on back of trailer behind the axles plus the 7k pushing on the axles along with the 3500 and you end up with the trailer steering itself and driving where you where it wants to go. Too light of a pin weight. I would surmise taking it slow and putting the plow in front of the axles for more pin weight. Drive the tractor up on and as forward as possible till you see your truck sagging too much and back off then take for test drive after buckling it down slowly and see how it handles on flat ground if you feel any trailer sway use your trailer brakes to stop it, don't try and counter steer it and note the speed it started at and stay way below about 15 to 20 mph to get back home to adjust your load. Better be playing with class 5 trailer hitch for handling this weight.
    I am no expert and am not liable for any damages/deaths, to property, life or ones ego, do this at your own risk.
     
  9. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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    Every extra foot beyond centerline becomes leverage, start calculating tongue weight then figure the lever aspect as to how light your front end will get as load it out, loss of steering control will only occur when need it most. As to GN hitch the ones I have had over the years were placed slightly AHEAD of Rear Axle Centerline, that so to maintain front axle weight distribution, start moving that hitch back and you start that leverage condition again.
     
  10. Mobiltech

    Mobiltech Senior Member

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    With a 6 foot overhang even a gooseneck will be transferring a lot of weight off the front wheels because you can’t get the hitch placement where it should be. The best part of a gooseneck is that you can get a lot more weight on the truck to keep it stable.
    With a bumper hitch you will need to keep something heavy loaded on the truck deck to have better control of the trailer.
     
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  11. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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    Are two issues with too much truck length to hitches, one is gaining enough tongue weight to keep the butt end down than having too much that lifts the front the other is during stopping that too much weight gets shifted on or off the front end making control nearly impossible.

    Goose neck hitches are designed to load a bit of tongue weight equally across the truck frame front and rear axle, too far south and you defeat the purpose. Bumper Pull even Pintle set ups need to be close to the back axle or transfer too much load OFF the front end by leverage.

    Basically you can do as you wish but nothing will change the poor wb for towing of your truck, you need a heavier chassis and closer to axle end of frame.
     
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  12. 56wrench

    56wrench Well-Known Member

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    on the light duty trucks I have installed gooseneck or 5th wheel hitches on, the kingpin (or ball) centerline was placed 2 inches in front of the rear axle centerline
     
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  13. suladas

    suladas Senior Member

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    Provided your 5500 is the 84" cab to axle and assuming your bed is actually 11'4" not 12', that is the ideal setup, but that wouldn't be near 6' from hitch to axle it would be like 40" I believe? If you have that kind of overhang you'll have to get a different deck as a gooseneck won't work either. It'll pull 26k on a bumper pull like nothing as long as you got a heavy enough hitch, and if the pin weight is right you won't get light in the front one bit. Virtually all of that extra length is in the wheelbase compared to a 3500, over 4' longer wheelbase and a 3500 will handle 2k on a bumper pull trailer without getting light in the front end one bit. I know because I pull one nearly everyday. I had a 14 ram 5500 and pulled the same trailers as with my 3500, the 5500 is a lot more truck. You won't be able to gauge pin weight by rear sag, because the rear ain't sagging with a bumper pull! 2k will not budge the suspension at all. I had over 6k of pin weight from my gooseneck and it still doesn't really drop the suspension.

    I still prefer a gooseneck as they pull so much easier, but if you need bed space the bumper pull will do just fine. Depending how yours is equipped the GVW I believe is 19,500, which means the trucks can haul around 10,000lbs on the deck alone..... There is no comparison to a 3500.
     
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  14. Willys53

    Willys53 Active Member

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    When in a tight area you will appreciate the added maneuverability of a goose, you can turn it 90* or more .
     
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  15. Steve Frazier

    Steve Frazier Founder

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    I've run both and prefer the gooseneck, it's a much more stable and safer trailer. As has been mentioned it applies some of the weight to the front axle rather than lifting it from it which makes the truck handle much better. Going around turns a heavily loaded tag along will try to kick the rear of the truck around on you, that doesn't happen with the gooseneck.
     
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  16. suladas

    suladas Senior Member

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    True, but it depends what you haul. Gooseneck deck needs to be like 5' longer to make up for truck deck space loss for many, so say a 30' gooseneck compared to 25' bumper pull are fairly similar as far as getting into places.
     
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