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Gooseneck trailer

Discussion in 'Trailers' started by Ray450, Dec 22, 2018.

  1. Ray450

    Ray450 Active Member

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    Just bought a 18 Ram 3500 DRW 3.73 gears 4x4 CC, 800 torque, not the 930 variety with the Aisin. Looking for my first gooseneck, so far I went and looked at Big Tex, Sure-pull, PJ, Kearney and 1 other at Tugger trailers, but can't remember what it was. I want to be able to haul my Deere CTL 333e with a few attachments (about 15k), Hay (max about the same) , upgrade my Massey to a 100 HP tractor and be able to get it on the trailer with my 15' batwing, or a baler in the future, and god only knows what else in the future. I went and took my Non CDL-class A Farm/RV test, and have an appointment for the driving test in a month. I'm leaning between total lengths between 32'-36', and either 10k tandem duals or 12k. Seems like the biggest decision is low boy pierced, or regular. I like the idea of low-boy, but am very concerned about dragging the ass end everywhere, the Big Tex didn't look like it would make it out of the parking lot without dragging. My property is not flat. Sure-pull is by far the cheapest, but I hated their big ramps, I'd have to weld something on them just to use them, no paint underneath, just primer, no torque tube and generally just cheaper, but cost is at least $2k less than all others. Other big differences, some have C Channel necks, some I-beam, some have under bridging, torque tubes, some have 25k or 30k couplers. Then tires, do I pop for the 14ply, it's a $600 upgrade at one location, and $1,200 at another, doesn't make much sense. And if I get the biggest most equipped, it's of course the heaviest, reducing what I can tow. ?????????
     
  2. Junkyard

    Junkyard Senior Member

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    Okie dokie.....leeeeeeeeeets get ready to rumble lol.

    Brand I care little about, purchase price is not how I choose either. Based on experience here’s what I would absolutely want so the trailer will stay together.....

    Torque tube for sure. It really helps with twist.

    12 or 15k axles with 17.5 tires. Preferably with hutch suspension or similar. Lasts way longer and rides better. 17.5’s will rot before you wear them out assuming you keep them aired up and don’t run stuff over.

    I see no need for the pierced lowboy with your intended use.

    I’ve had a couple Big Tex high tensile with 15k axles. Other than some ramp repairs (they were built before all this MEGA ramp nonsense) I’ve had zero issue with them. However....they’ve gotten so big that I fear their quality may suffer due to volume.

    For your anticipated weight capacity neck better be I beam. I’d also look it over and make sure is USA made steel. If they have 5 of the same trailer you want I’d look em over for paint quality, weld quality etc. One might be a Friday trailer and one might be a Wednesday. Just like cars, bound to be a turd.

    Lately I’ve been shopping for a tilt pintle for skid steer etc. Maxey has some nice looking wagons.

    Hope that helps
     
  3. Ray450

    Ray450 Active Member

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    Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately for me, the purchase price has a lot to do with it, as I'd rather put extra money towards other things that will be used much more often. I'm trying to upgrade my truck (done), tractor, get a trailer, baler, disc cutter and rake before I retire in a couple years and start doing this full time. I've had a lot of issues with "Hay Guys", mostly trying to schedule around the other things I have going on at my property, there's 100s of bales sitting in a low area right now! Hoping to start doing that myself in another year, maybe even this coming spring if I have too. Anyway, I figured the 17.5" was overkill for me, but if they last a lot longer (time more important than miles), it might be worth considering. I do run high plys on everything else, mainly because I have hundreds of Honey locust trees that end up flattening everything with their thorns. I even run 16ply trailer tires on the front of my tractor. This trailer will probably go months between uses, and rarely haul heavy and/or far. Really don't want to ever tow more than about a combined 25k with this truck, and 95% of the loads should be well below 20k combined. My 333E CTL has thrown a code since I've owned it and I need to finally take it in and get it worked on. There could be years where I don't even put a 1k miles on this trailer, but I'm tired of borrowing. I really think I could probably get by with 10k axles (12k at most) in a 27' or 28' trailer with 14 plys, I might have already pulled the trigger on a Kearney, but it had the C-channel neck and a 25k coupler, or a Big Tex, that has the 30k coupler and I-beam, but very heavy low hanging ramps that scared me.
     
  4. Steve Frazier

    Steve Frazier Founder

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    Take a look at Kaufmantrailers.com. I bought two personally and just ordered one for work and my neighbor bought one as well. I was in your spot a couple years ago and found they offered the most for the best price. They sell factory direct only so you get a great deal. They also do a self cleaning dove tail which greatly reduces the amount of mud that gets up on the deck. I also recommend the 17.5 tires, you'll only have half as many as with 16s, less weight, less drag and fewer to replace. I did the math and it was less expensive to go that route.

    A couple things I didn't see mentioned if you look around is make sure you specify Dexter axles. I bought a trailer years ago with a different brand and it was extremely difficult to find replacement brakes for it. When I did they didn't work right. Dexter parts are readily available.

    I'd also specify sealed wiring with LED lights all around. As long as you don't damage either they should never give you trouble. DOT is pretty active around here and a malfunctioning light or few will get you cited.
     
  5. Ray450

    Ray450 Active Member

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    Seems like most of them used Rockwell, the Big Tex may have been the only one with Dexters. What does this mean, "I also recommend the 17.5 tires, you'll only have half as many as with 16s, less weight, less drag and fewer to replace." are you saying I should go with two singles? I know I sent messages to Texas Trailers in Madisonville, and maybe Kaufman, I can't remember for sure they are all running together. Kaufman seemed good, but you had to add in a lot of the options, and I'm sure they could make any length, but they seemed to go from 30' to 35', and I'm leaning towards a total of 32'-33'. I measured a JD 5101 that my hay guy has sitting on my property and my batwing, looks like it would take every inch of a 27'+5' trailer to get forward enough to lower ramps and back it back up. I don't want a really long trailer, I think 28'+5' would be perfect. Kearney has a 2017 36' really nicely equipped trailer, I-beam, 12k axles, torque tube, under bridging, 30k coupler, but just the standard 10ply tires. They don't seem to want to deal on it much.
     
  6. Steve Frazier

    Steve Frazier Founder

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    A single 17.5 tire has a greater weight rating than dual 16s. The gooseneck trailer I bought is rated for 25,000 lbs and came standard with eight 16" wheels and tires but I opted to equip it with four 17.5 inch rims and tires. I ended up with a slightly greater weight capacity of the tires, less total weight and less drag, all a plus when towing. I found that Kaufman was much more willing to build exactly what I wanted than any other manufacturer and was the least costly of the ones I checked with. I had them install a beam across the front with a 2" Reese receiver tube to slide my winch on and off with, I couldn't get anyone else to do that.

    My first equipment trailer had Rockwell 8000lb axles on it and when the brakes went on it it was laid up 6 months before the original dealer could find the parts. The brakes never worked well from the beginning, and the replacements weren't much better. I replaced them again a couple years ago after extensive searching here on the internet and they still aren't working properly. I won't buy anything but Dexter anymore.
     
  7. suladas

    suladas Senior Member

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    If the trailer is going off of pavement, I would highly advise against super singles. That is 5000lbs per tire, they will find any soft spot and the trailer will be stuck all the time. Plus any flat/low tire and you're changing before you move an inch loaded, while a dually you can travel fine with 1 tire down.

    I recently sold my SWS 25+5 2x10k gooseneck, it was certainly a useful trailer. I found most overbuild their goosenecks so much. I can't count how many times I overloaded it and it didn't budge a bit. The heaviest was 19,500lbs of load on it, so the trailer was at 26,000lbs. While many are stamped for 20k, mine in particular the 2x10k and 3x10 was the exact same trailer minus the extra axle and coupler. Didn't have a torque tube, not a bad idea especially if really long, but built properly 12" 19lb I beam is incredibly strong. You want a balance between quality and overbuilt, some are so insane you can't haul anything. Like those stupid monster ramps, so heavy you loose so much payload.

    If prices are different there it might make sense, but brakes are stupidly expensive for 12k, and 15k axles (many are the same). Parts wise, they are about 2.5 times what 10k parts are. My opinion would be 2x10k but get one plated for 24-25k. If you need heavier 3x10k is better then 2x15 because it's so much cheaper to buy and maintain.
     
  8. Junkyard

    Junkyard Senior Member

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    I wouldn’t have a three axle gooseneck for love or money. They scrub tires awful when loaded not to mention pull hard compared to a tandem dual or a single 17.5. The brakes, bearings and all associated parts on a 15k vs a 10k axle last so much longer that the cost of ownership between the two is negligible at best even accounting for 15k parts being higher (not that much based on firsthand experience).

    As far as single tires in soft ground..... If a single vs duals makes that big of a difference you’re stuck either way. I wouldn’t want to go far with a tire down on a dual setup, especially a 10 ply 16”. Also, if you did a 245 tire in the 17.5 single I bet your contact patch isn’t much different than a pair of 235/85R16 and in some situations duals pull harder than singles.

    In a perfect world 15k tandem dual with 17.5’s is the be all, end all setup. Better and bigger brakes, superior tire life and capacity not to mention a significant safety factor. The suspensions offered for the 15k axles will outlast a 10k setup 2 or 3 to 1.

    I’ve run and repaired about any possible setup there is. Long run you would be hard pressed to make a tandem dual 10k setup beat a 15k tandem dual setup in every metric of performance. The exception, obviously, is how often it’s used.

    Based on what the OP intends to do with the trailer it’s a coin toss. One thing I’ve learned with trailers is they’re seldom long enough or heavy enough. Your intended uses soon grow as well as the mileage you intend to use them. I’d rather go a little heavier and better built now than have to swap trailers down the road or run into “the man” and find out I’m not in compliance for one reason or another.

    If you’ve never run 17.5’s it’s hard to believe the difference they make. 3 years in the sun down south and most 16’s are junk. 17.5’s are so much heavier built they’ll take a ton more abuse and outlast the 16’s many times over. Also, it seems like a lot of 16” trailer tires are junk to start with and if you buy a really good name brand 16” tire you could have bought a 17.5. Running single 17.5’s that’s half the $ to put new tires on.....

    We can skin this cat a million ways. The moral of the story for me is no matter what it needs 17.5” shoes.

    Now the OP is thoroughly confused! Haha
     
    colson04 and hvy 1ton like this.
  9. suladas

    suladas Senior Member

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    Really depends on parts prices. There is a reason 12k and 15k are virtually non existent here, parts are too much more. I checked at numerous places locally and like I said almost 3 times the cost for 15k parts compared to 10k. I can't comment on their lifespan difference, but ime 10k parts last a long time. I can't remember the ply my tires had, but they were rated for 3k a piece, the extra factor is nice. Most 17.5 are just a tiny bit under 5000. I actually broke a rim when it was loaded with 19,000lbs and had no problem making the last 20ish miles of my trip. Even with 3 tires left on that side, you still have 9,000lbs of tires. The only time in 3 years and about 15k miles I ever had a tire issue on the trailer, and the tires were far from new when I bought the trailer.

    My only experience with 17.5 is on my 25 ton tag. Definitely a massive difference in terms of toughness, but I wouldn't say so when you're putting double the weight on them in a super single application. For me I am only putting 4400 per tire, and they squash pretty decently at that at max pressure. Because in no other trailer application would you ever get 5000lbs per tire, and 2 tires so close together. A 3x10 definitely won't turn as nicely as a 2x15k but from my experience of comparing original buying prices and ownership costs, i'd take it in a heartbeat. The new trailer will cost you around 50% more alone. That tells me right there that 50% more is 100% more from the difference in the axles,rims, and tires as the rest of the trailer is the same.

    As far as getting stuck that was why I loved my dually trailer, you have so much more surface area that is spread out to span over soft spots. It's not just the surface area, it's that is spaced out more.
     
  10. Junkyard

    Junkyard Senior Member

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    Stuff might be that much higher up there but I don’t see near the difference in parts or initial purchase price down here.

    This might be a shock to some...I tend to overthink and overbuild haha
     
  11. suladas

    suladas Senior Member

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    If the initial purchase was negligible, like 5-10%, and parts were pretty close to yea i'd take 15k's in a heartbeat. It really doesn't make any sense why they are so much more it was something stupid like $500 per wheel for pads, I can do a set of brakes cheaper on my 3x25k axles then 2x10k axles even factoring in extra labour for the extra axle..... Parts are nothing for the heavy air brake axles. Even for 10k axles it's about $600 per wheel for shoes and drums.
     
  12. Junkyard

    Junkyard Senior Member

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    It is ridiculous that some of those smaller parts are so high.
     
  13. hvy 1ton

    hvy 1ton Senior Member

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    If a person was stuck on having duals, 215/75/17.5 are an option. 235/75/175 work as singles on 10K axles. I'm starting to wish i had bought a 12K axle trailer. If I ever move to a hydraulic tail gooseneck it's going to be 12k minimum. I have a 35' Hillsboro from the 70's that has 4 7K axles and uses 14 ply 15" tires. Between that and the wiring being vaporized by a lightning strike, It's on my list of 'I need to do something about that.'
     
  14. Junkyard

    Junkyard Senior Member

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    Send “that” to me and replace! Haha
     
  15. hvy 1ton

    hvy 1ton Senior Member

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    It's in long-term storage. I need to decide what to replace the running gear with. The scrub with 4 axles is impressive. I've broken a couple springs on the back axle and I can only guess it's from turning too sharp. Probably going to go with 3 8k or 9k axles since the frame is too wide for duals.
     
  16. Shimmy1

    Shimmy1 Senior Member

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  17. Junkyard

    Junkyard Senior Member

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    They make great trailers. OIH has a dump trailer made by them and he loves it.
     
  18. Ray450

    Ray450 Active Member

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    IMG_2331.JPG IMG_3584.JPG IMG_2331.JPG IMG_3584.JPG I've looked into the single 17.5", and it has some benefits. I really like the idea of less weight/drag/tires , but in the end I got a dually for the same reasons I should probably stick with a tandem dual. Flotation is big with me, about 100 acres of my property is in a low/flood plain, clay. I put on a offroad M/C races every year, 9 miles of track and about 20 acres used for camping. And this year had a downpour hit after a lot of big RV trailers and motorhomes had already pulled in. I had to use my 333E CTL to pull some of them in and a lot of them out, even the 4x4s. I did notice that when I was pulling trucks with triple axle RVs, they got very hard to pull when turning and tore the ground up a lot. From what I've read, triples are out. I think I'll get a tandem dual, either in 10k or 12k, 32'-36' total length, undecided on low boy or not, most seem to be low boy, but I'd almost rather have a little extra clearance for the tail and since they put the steel over the wheels on low-boys to keep them from hitting, I assume there is almost no room in there for slightly taller tires? I'll get a torque tube as well. I'm hoping I get some calls and quotes back today. I'm leaning towards a 2018 Kearney on clearance not far from me. $9,300 , 27+5 10k low boy, torque tube with regular ramps and a pop-up. I just wish it had the I-beam neck instead of 10" channel, and I'm going to see what it would cost to upgrade to 14 plys 235/85, as I think the cost to upgrade to 17.5 on this trailer would be overkill (tires would be rated for more than 10k over the trailer), It seems if I upgrade to one with everything I'd prefer, 33'-35', 12k axles, 17.5 wheels, 30k coupler, I-beam neck, torque tube and bridging, wider ramps, it's going to be around $13k and weigh around 1k pounds more. Keep in mind, I don't want to ever tow more than about 25k total with this truck, and prefer to be under 20k combined 98% of the time (with about 4k of it on my truck). Just not sure it's cost effective to spend $3k-$4k more for a heavier trailer that will be more than what I need 98% of the time. There's lots of 10k trailers everywhere for very competitive prices, I'll probably have to have one built if I go the 12k with 17.5 wheels direction. I'd rather put that money into my tractor. If I can find a great deal that's only about a couple grand more, I'll do it though.
     
  19. Ray450

    Ray450 Active Member

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    Pulled the trigger on a 2018 32' Kearney Deluxe pierced low, torque tube, dozer package with I beam neck, 30k coupler, 12k axles, a lock box, spare, and it has blocks on the ramp with several pieces of extra channel to strengthen the ramps and a rounded extra piece to make the ramp/flatbed transition smoother. It had all the options I really wanted but has the 10 ply 16' tires. It was only about $500-2k more than the other quality 10k axle trailers I was looking at but had several other options included. The small dealer I got this from (2 1/2 hour drive) didn't even stock 17.5" upgrades, but the two other Kearney dealers I had gone to wanted a ridiculous $2,400 for that upgrade. I can buy a complete set at several places for under $2k, and keep all the stock tires. It was typically a $1,200-$1,800 upgrade everywhere else, PJ probably had the best deal, they were $1,800, but you still keep all 8 of the 16 stock tires and wheels. I figure I'll see how long these 16s last, and will eventually just buy a set of 17.5 and this set will have actually cost me less than $100 bucks a tire/wheel, and I might get lucky and get 4-5 years outa these. I also would have preferred a center pop-up, but I can fab something together, and this trailer doesn't seem overly low or heavy in the back. It easily has double the clearance the Big Tex's had at the end of the ramp. Trailer sales have apparently been good, a lot of dealers are out, few are making any deals. At least 1/2 the dealers I sent emails or online quotes to never even contacted me back. I barely noticed it back there on the way home, did cut the mileage down from about 16 to 12. Kearney.jpg
     
  20. Shimmy1

    Shimmy1 Senior Member

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    You will want to weld a piece of 1/2" bar or round stock along that piece if you ever plan to load steel tracked equipment. Don't ask me how I know.