Go Pettibone

[Pettiboner]

 

[old-iron-habit]

Little early to be headed south for the winter? eh.
or............ Is the Canada dollar really that bad that this is your new travel trailer.

Seriously, I like the old Pettibones.

 

[Pettiboner]

Hahahahahaha! Very good. Not headed south yet! Just moving the FARMiture around!! I think there is a warmth to running old iron. Its like living history.

 

[Pettiboner]

Oh Nooooo!
I broke my Pettibone!
Nearly dropped the hoe right off it. Snapped the bottom bracket clean.
Whattaya think fellas? Is it salvageable?
Any other old iron nuts have any ideas? I would just hate to scrap her.

 

[old-iron-habit]

V the crack in the boom, weld it, and fishplate it on the sides with diamond shaped 1/2" plates with rounded ends. Best not to cut them to a point and make a stress point. Used properly it should be fine. It looks to be fitted up reasonably well. The bottom bracket will weld up also. I gotta ask. How did you bust it that badly? Move a barn instead of just a shed?

 

[Pettiboner]

Well......
kind of.
I had a load of logs pre-slung on a trailer. I lifted the load (heavy) crowded up close, plan was to just swing it 90 degrees and land it. Unfortunately in my attempt to catch the swing, I was not paying close enough attention to the stops, and BANG, SNAP, creeeeeaaaaaaaak, she laid down sideways about 20 degrees.
I was able to stand it up with the hydraulics and get her secured with chains and cinches.
THEN, true to Pettibone standards, I FINISHED THE JOB (6 more loads) using the front end loader instead!

 

[Pettiboner]

And thank you Old Iron Habit for the tip. I had the V the crack part of the process figured but had not considered the fish plate. I will do that for sure. (After California!)

 

[Welder Dave]

Preheat to 300-400 deg's would be beneficial. Make sure to get 100% penetration. I had similar repairs on my backhoe but welded it up with 7018 and all is well.

 

[Pettiboner]

Thank you Welder Dave.
If I could pick your brain some more.....
The bottom bracket is about 4" thick and 7" across. How does one V that? Presumably horizontally but to go down 4" to 0 width at the bottom, how wide should my opening 4" up at the top be??
And how, die grinder? Angle grinder?
Any suggestions are appreciated.
I am hoping to weld it while the hoe is still attached so as to keep the alignment of the brackets to the hoe.

 

[Welder Dave]

First thing is make sure it isn't cast iron. I don't think it is but good to verify with a grinder or see if a corner will cut with a cutting torch. I'd guess cast steel which is readily weldable. Need some better pics. and not real close up to better see exactly how it's broken. Bevel needs to wide enough you can get a welding rod down to the bottom. Angle isn't too critical but 100% penetration is. The process of welding it is more important and may need to be beveled from both sides. I think the hoe will have to be taken off to do a proper repair and have enough room. Might be able to tack some temporary braces on it to hold it in position to get the hoe off.

My repair was a little different. I ripped the top swing mount right off and bent the bottom 1-1/2" thick swing mount. Although the bottom mount wasn't cracked, I v'd it out so I could straighten it but didn't push it completely straight as that would have added stress. I allowed for the weld to pull it back somewhat on cooling. Had a friend come out with a rosebud for final alignment. I took the replaceable bushings for the swing out and had a piece of heavy wall pipe the same size (3" OD) so I could align the top and bottom swing pivots. For the final fitting I put the replaceable bushings back in and had a piece of heavy wall 2-1/2" tubing turned for .005" clearance. When welding up the V I ground into the weld from the other side to be sure there were no slag inclusions or other flaws. That way I could insure 100% penetration. When welding top mount on that was only 1" thick, I ground a bevel on both sides of the plate to give more penetration and weld reinforcement on the weld in bushing. It was only welded with 1 pass around the top and bottom from the factory. I bought a used welder ($1300) to do the repair because I figured it would have cost a few thousand to hire the job out. Welder has paid for itself several times over with other projects. If I wasn't an experienced welder I wouldn't have attempted it. In hindsight I should have taken pics. of how I repaired it.

 

[Pettiboner]

Thank you Welder Dave.

That is excellent and very helpful advice. I love the idea of a heavy wall pipe to insert through the holes to ensure alignment. Didn't even cross my mind but that is a great simple solution to my rather complex problem.

I am concerned that because the top mount yielded sideways after the bottom mount snapped that they are no longer turning on the same axis so the pipe plan will resolve that as well.

I am convinced it is cast steel. Grinder sparks pop like fireworks.
I have laid a lot of stick over the years but I am by no means a professional. I am still using my old Hobart AC buzzbox that was an antique when I was a kid! It will burn 7014 all day no problem but it is not happy with 7018. Flat horizontal I can do ok. Vertical......maybe c+. Overhead....F

I understand what you say about inclusions. Also I have been told about a melt crayon that can be used to be sure the piece isnt getting too hot or too cold while welding the casting up. I think I want to give this a try. Hiring someone just doesn't make economic sense for this old beast.

7014 rod...... is ok you think?

 

[Welder Dave]

NO on the 7014! It is not designed for dynamic loading. It is for static loading applications. Dynamic basically means under stress. A static load would be like a table designed to hold 1000lbs. sitting on it. A dynamic load would be like dropping 1000lbs. from 4' on the table. Tempilsticks are the best way to get correct temperature. If you did most of the prep work and got everything apart might not be too expensive to have a welder do the welding. If the rest of the machine is in good shape it's worth fixing properly.

 

[Pettiboner]

Ahhhhhh.
Saved from MYSELF again!!
Thanks so much Welder Dave.
Probably better now to spend the money hiring a pro than buying a welder that will handle 7018.
I think you're right.
If I do the prep work.....

 

[Welder Dave]

Have a welder take a look at it first and he can tell you how he wants it prepped and or braced before it comes apart. Then you can take it apart, prep it and have all the line up pins/pipe ready for him. Take measurements for spacing so it will fit back together. Might not be a bad idea to have more than 1 welder look at it if the 1st one isn't sure. Preferably someone who has worked on heavy equipment and/or structural welding. I've seen some fantastic pipeline welders who were out of their element welding structural. You should be able to get a good feeling after they look at what needs done.

 

[Blocker in MS]

If you had a more capable welder, I would recommend you get a carbon arc gouging lead and a box of rods to bevel out the cracks. If your time is worth much, that would be the way to go. As far as going vertical with 7018, if you had a friend to guide a little, that would be a good place to get comfortable with it. Once you get the first few passes in and you able to have enough room to weave a little you should pick up the uphill pretty quickly.

That was some 1/2” I cut out on Thursday in the frame of dirt bucket. That took all of about 6 minutes once the leads were pulled out.

It would be very interesting to see some larger pictures of the cracked area. It was a little hard to follow exactly how they were oriented.

The guys around here that move portable sheds and outbuilding use trucks and hydraulic trailers. They do not have near as much style as your operation there! Bravo!

 

[Blocker in MS]

By “more capable welder” in that other post, I should have stated that more clearly. What I meant to say was you need a little more capable welding machine. No belittlement toward your talents intended.

 

[RZucker]

By “more capable welder” in that other post, I should have stated that more clearly. What I meant to say was you need a little more capable welding machine. No belittlement toward your talents intended.

I agree with this, but likely that swing tower is a fairly rare part. It may be cheaper in the long run to have it done right the first time.

 

[Welder Dave]

You need a good DC welder for gouging along with about a 30 CFM compressor. Gouging is almost a direct short and hard on a welding machine. The other thing that's real important when gouging is that everything has to be ground to remove any traces of carbon. Having a carbon deposit is similar to having a slag inclusion. For the repair to last I agree with RZucker. The welding needs to be done by someone with enough experience. If the welder had a gouger and air compressor set up could speed things up but proper gouging also requires experience and blows hot metal and sparks at high velocity. You don't want to accidently hit the wrong part when gouging or burn something else up.

 

[Pettiboner]

You guys rock.
I really appreciate the input.
Its a tough call you know. I have been seriously considering buying a new welder for this job and giving it a go. Then at least I have a good welder at the end of this ordeal.
And Blocker, thanks for your concern. No offense was taken. I know that my old Hobart buzzbox and I are a good fit for each other! We BOTH SUCK at welding!!! Hahahah. But as you say, with a more capable welder, I may be a better welder which in itself would be a win.
So thanks again everyone for your inputs.
So much to think about.

 

[Welder Dave]

A better machine makes it easier to weld but doesn't instantly make you a better welder. Sorry but if you want the repair to last it needs to be done by someone with the required experience. If it was a crack in the bucket or a new bushing needed to be welded in, then go for it. That's a big powerful machine. If it comes apart again may not be repairable.