Galion 503 A series DRIVE CHAIN LENGTH

[Shunta]

Greetings oh great guru's of the heavy equipment forums!

1973 Galion A series grader, D236 IH diesel.
Simple question, what is SUPPOSED to be the stock length of the chains in the tandem drives?

Issue:
Friend now owns this grader. After replacing the injector pump and making her run again after 3-4 years sitting (pump cost more than the grader did), moved on to making brakes work. New master cyl, new lines, new wheel cylinders, new (relined) shoes, had one axle spin free so pulled inspection plate and no chain on left rear axle. Pulled old chain out and found 18 fractured links and half dozen repair links.

Resolution so far:
Ordered a 6 ft series 60 double roller from McMaster, lined up next to old chain, and pin for pin, link for link same size. Installed new chain with little issue once I figured out to pull the big round center cover (duh) AND inner and outer side inspection plates to allow the insertion of the master link. Total time to replace less than 10 minutes.

Concern:
I plan on jacking up entire tandem to free both wheels from the ground, but observation right now shows the front left drive chain appears to be 1 to 2 links SHORTER than replaced 6ft chain on left rear. Inspection ALSO shows (through big round side plate) no less than 10 replacement master links visible on front old chain. There is probably 3 inches of chain "droop" on new chain, with a bit less on "old" front chain.

Question (finally):
What is SUPPOSED to be the actual length of the drive chain, OR how much slack should there be (droop), or am I missing something in my thoughts? I'm GUESSING that front and rear chains should have same amount of slack, but how much is ok? And should the slack be the same on both sides (I'm guessing the answer is yes here...)

Thanks for any advice, and I'll try to promptly answer any questions....

 

[repowerguy]

It's been too long ago to give an actual link count, but the proper length is when you are just able to pull the two ends together and get the master link in. Anymore than that is too long. Repairing a broken chain is a waste of time and money, when the chain breaks, toss it and the companion and install a new one.

Search my other posts on Galion 503 graders for repair tips and needed mods.

 

[Shunta]

It's been too long ago to give an actual link count, but the proper length is when you are just able to pull the two ends together and get the master link in. Anymore than that is too long. Repairing a broken chain is a waste of time and money, when the chain breaks, toss it and the companion and install a new one.

Search my other posts on Galion 503 graders for repair tips and needed mods.

I was hoping from what I've seen on here you'd answer this one You seem to be pretty knowledgeable about it all!!

Thanks for the reply.... Guess I'll pull the new chain out and grind out some links till it's "just slack enough to put the master link in" and go from there...
Thanks!!!

 

[repowerguy]

You’re quite welcome.

 

[Shunta]

Just so it shows up SHOULD someone do a search at some point in the future...
This is a 1973 Series A Galion with a IH D236 diesel engine.
The chains on the tandems I just replaced were in the $130 each range from McMaster-Carr
They are a 60 series Double roller 6 foot long
Chains I replaced were on the LEFT tandem
One old one had already split in half, with over 20 fractured links (the outer dog bone looking parts that the pins first go through) on just one side, the opposite side had over a dozen, so it was GOING to fail without a doubt if it hadn't been replaced.
I wound up replacing both front and rear chains, as the front chain appeared to be made up totally of master links with cotter pins in EVERY pin... /shrug
The front ORGINIAL link count was 47 counting the master link, which is one link SHORTER than a 6 ft chain. The rear chain counted the same. BOTH had been WELL stretched.
Issue I ran into was on the front chain, it was like a half millimeter from totally fitting at 47 links, I MIGHT have been able to get it to go with a touch more patience, but it wasn't letting me put the center two dogbone pieces in and it was TIGHT.
Since I had already cut off one link (to a total including master link of 47), I had to use a Adding-and-Connecting Link I had from the old chain as well as a new master link to make things fit. I HOPE in about 6 months or so after my friend has used this a bit I'll be able to take that Adding-and-Connecting Link out and just go with a using the Master Link .. Only lacking like 3 millimeters or so on the rear chain to make it fit, and like I said on the front it was ALMOST there, but I wanted both chains same length getting started.

Maybe this will help someone in the future.... who knows....
And again Thanks to repowerguy, yall need to check his other postings, I'll say he seems pretty knowledgeable /grin

Peace and Fair Journeys

PS. If you're reading this after getting an old diesel piece of equipment like this, BEFORE YOU START IT OR TRY TO START IT, take the injector pump off, take it and have it serviced and cleaned, clean the fuel tank and lines and replace the lines if there is ANY sign of internal rust, and replace your fuel filters and clean the bowls.... It might save you $2950 for a NOS 1974 injector pump... If they seize, they break the shaft and they are HARD to find, took my guy a WEEK to come up with one he was comfortable with.....

 

[repowerguy]

It may not have been all master links in the chain. A cottered style chain is available. Generally speaking the cottered style is difficult to get apart, sort of a light press fit on the outside plate.
Anyway, smart move on replacing both chains, it’s a pain to de-burr a sprocket that’s had a broken chain lock it up.

 

[Razorsedge2003]

It’s on my to do list this winter to look at final drives and get brakes working on my 503L. Anything weird to look out for?

 

[repowerguy]

Not particularly, it’s a basic straightforward system. With it jacked up, check for movement in the wheel bearings. If it’s noticeably loose, the quick and dirty fix is remove an adjustment shim to tighten up the bearing clearance. Obviously this isn’t best practice as it needs new bearings, but on a low use farm machine, it’s good enough.
Next is look close at the drive chains and try to find any cracks. I would lean towards a complete change out, but I realize that’s a lot of money to spend.

 

[Razorsedge2003]

I will be inspecting the chains closely. Are the slave cylinders common parts? I actually have enough roads/driveways to do that I am having a couple guys run equipment to get done more timely. I would like for the graders to be reliable and safer. Finding time to get them that way is an issue of course.

 

[repowerguy]

If you are making money with the machine, well I would probably take the lumps and put in new chains if you don’t know how long they have been in service. The wheel cylinders are a common style as I remember, but the last one I did was just a hone and new cups. One upgrade we did was increase the bore size of the master cylinder so we weren’t forever adjusting the brakes. The stock size is a little small and you use a lot of pedal travel to engage the shoes. We fought that a while and finally went to our old NAPA store that has yellowed books and found a side mounted master cylinder with a little bigger bore. It did increase pedal effort some, but there’s no more double pumping the brakes to stop.

 

[Razorsedge2003]

Previous owner had a newer looking master cylinder on already. They kinda worked with some added fluid and a bunch of pumping for a couple years. Now I just gotta be careful and creative if there’s any hills to deal with. The 570 has good brakes thankfully, as that’s the one I’ll send my operators out in first. Thanks for all of your knowledge

 

[Shunta]

It’s on my to do list this winter to look at final drives and get brakes working on my 503L. Anything weird to look out for?

On the back of the wheel cylinders once you get them off, there should be a casted number on them, my guy at Advance Auto had no trouble procuring a couple of them for me. As for the brake shoes themselves, there IS a Bendix number stamped onto them, but hunting them up by that number proved no joy. The metal of the shoes was in fine shape other than some minor surface rust albeit missing most of the pad material. I was able to have a local shop reline them for me for $40 for 2 pairs. My master cylinder was toast, lots of water apparently had found its way into it and it was seized beyond hope. Wound up cutting the support plate that held the master cylinder onto the frame of the grader and spinning it 90 degrees and welding it and a right angle support brace on and using (I think he said) a late 50's chevy belair master brake cylinder as a replacement. 4 mounting holes, all cast iron with a self contained reservoir though it has a plastic cap which I may machine a new cap and replace it and add an o-ring to instead (and drill a downward facing vent hole into it), and I had to heat and bend a slight offset into the push rod from the rotating bar that connects the pushrod to the brake pedal. So far things seem great, just make sure you clean and anti-seize the slack adjusters and remember which way is "expand" once you stick that drum back on.
As for taking the drum off, I've seen LOTS of vids on how to do it, and the best that worked for me was as follows:
1) Get a good nights sleep before hand, you're going to need it
2) Heat, and LOTS of it. Torch with rosebud head preferred IMO
3) 2 pieces probably 2 ft long of 5/8ths threaded rod (depending on jack size)
4) 10 to 20 ton bottle jack
5) piece of 4 inch C channel with 2 holes drilled into it the spacing of opposite lug studs (or other similar strong steel, I bent TWO during my removal process)
6) 1/4 inch or similar 2x2" piece of metal to go between jack and axle
7) Remove cotter pin and spin axle nut off to the point where the outer edge is JUST proud of the axle shaft, Wouldn't hurt to remove it all the way and grease the threads and run it back on and then back off again to previous mentioned distance
8) Lock two wheel nuts onto a stud, then that should allow you to remove the stud from the drum
9) Remove two opposing studs and screw in two pieces of threaded rod
10) Put the C channel onto rods and secure with wheel nuts
11) Grow an extra pair of hands and arms
12) Position small metal square over nut, jack with the pump piston down or sideways, NOT on top (it'll never get fluid that way), and put tension on it enough to hold it in place
13) Heat area of drum around hole for axle shaft. It's cast iron, it will take a LOT of heat. The axle shaft WILL melt if you use a cutting tip and get it too close to it for too long, faster than the cast will. You CAN get the cast glowing red.
14) Have patience, it will take several minutes to heat it up sufficiently to make this easier
15) When you have a nice dull red glow pretty much all the way around the axle on the drum, start jacking away.... IF it doesn't pop right off with just jacking on it, get the most tension on it you can with the jack and take a sledge hammer to the outer rim of the drum, but hit it square or you may chip it
16) It hitting the ground taking it off is easy, it only weights more than probably 125-150 lbs it seems like, going back ON though, use help or a hoist, and I STRONGLY suggest taking a piece of radiator hose or SOMETHING and COVER THE AXLE THREADS BEFORE YOU REMOVE IT AND when you put it back on... you'll be glad you did!!!!!

That's what worked for me... Drums are heavy and will stay warm for quite a while... I don't suggest spraying water on them to try and cool them, you may wind up cracking it if you do... The brakes are pretty much the same as a cars drum brakes without the E brake system or self adjusting slack adjustors ...

Now, as to the chains on the tandems.... I found over 18 fractured links on ONE chain, hence replacing them... See my next comment for some interesting details on THAT update...

 

[Shunta]

UPDATE #2
So, Here's another update on the Left side Tandem final drives chain saga

The McMaster-Carr #60 double roller chain 6 ft long (about $140 with shipping, and FAST shipping too!) was ONE link too long for the grader. When I FIRST put them on (changed both remember), I could BARELY get one to connect and the other was 1 or 2 millimeters away from actually going in and connecting. So I put an offset link in and the master on BOTH chains (so they were both same length) and THIS ALMOST proved disasterous !!! While they were both the same length, they were NOT the same length as the opposite side.

I would take off with it, and could hear a loud CLUNK every now and then, and when I put it under load, one or both of the LEFT side tires (repaired side) would either NOT MOVE or would stutter. I took off the top inspection access covers and watched it as it was doing this, and the chain was NOT moving!!! Apparently it was skipping SOMEWHERE, just not sure where. Drove it up and down the driveway (MAYBE 60 ft each way) a couple times at most.

Well, I jacked up BOTH tandems, took off the left side covers, again, and started investigating. The primary axle shaft from differential to tandem box seemed ok, the twin sprockets are splined on the shaft and not keywayed, so THEY weren't spinning. The teeth (THANKFULLY) on them seemed in good shape, no funky looking teeth or edges. So I grabbed the chain and for some reason, tried to see if I could ... advance it... around the wheel sprocket by picking it up and putting one roller into a tooth with one roller standing above the tooth (like THAT may make any sense to anyone) and I COULD!!! There was enough slack I could advance the chain one link at a time by hand around the sprocket.

So I took the chance and tried again to take out the offset link I put in and see if the masters would go in, and guess what, THIS TIME they went right in EASILY !!!! Albeit a bit tight, but they went!!! imagine that huh?!

So now with all 4 wheels up in the air, and able to see the drums and backing plates (of course) I got an idea. I rotated each tire to it's 'tightness' in one direction, made a mark on the backing plate and drum, then 'took up the chain slack' in the opposite direction and made another mark on the backing plate. I did this with each tire and the marks were within an 1/8th of an inch from each other this time!!!!! So back goes the permatex and side covers, I left the tops open so I could watch and make it easy to fill back with fluid, and BINGO!!!!! NO MORE NOISES!!!!!! No skipping, no banging no NOTHING that wasn't supposed to be there....

I hope anyone who has to fight with one of these benefits from my frustration... Seems like a nice machine for sure, and I hope my bud who bought it will let me play with it someday!!!!

 

[repowerguy]

Man Shunta you definitely went the hard, hard way to remove the hubs. The knocker method is so much easier.

 

[Shunta]

Man Shunta you definitely went the hard, hard way to remove the hubs. The knocker method is so much easier.

I tried beating them off... didn't work
I made a shaft that I turned on my lathe with the same threads as the nut, bolted a piece of 3 inch C channel with three holes in it TO THE DRUM using the lug studs, and put my 1 inch impact on the post I made (yeah even cut it for a socket to fit) and hammered away at it for an HOUR and turned a straight piece of metal into a crescent shape, TWICE AND beat on it under as much tension I could get.... didn't work
Finally heated it up and such and jack jack jack BOOM it hit the ground..... took me all of about 10 minutes the last time... the second one I did it was off within 10 minutes...

If there's an easier way, PLEASE share.... I'd be curious....
Thanks!!!!

 

[repowerguy]

I take off the nut and weld on a frying pan shape at least 1/2” thick, then spin this on the spindle and tap it on tightly. This hub assembly MUST have a inflated tire and wheel mounted securely to it setting on the floor. Now jack up the OPPOSITE side of the machine and hit the knocker with a 12# sledgehammer and it will pop off in a few whacks. If someone really buried it tight with a 1” drive gun at some point, a 16# may be necessary.
This has never failed me and it scales up to bigger machines held together by tapered bores. Galion service manuals told you to do it just like I told you here.

I remember Galions old slogan on there machines. Galion miles ahead.
Simple durable machines with the features that you needed to get the job done.

 

[Shunta]

I take off the nut and weld on a frying pan shape at ....

Well should I decide against my better judgement to take off the front two tires, I shall surely give your method a try and hopefully will remember to come back and let you know how well I succeeded in that endeavor...
Thanks !!!!!!

 

[repowerguy]

Well should I decide against my better judgement to take off the front two tires, I shall surely give your method a try and hopefully will remember to come back and let you know how well I succeeded in that endeavor...
Thanks !!!!!!

The knocker method is really super easy once you have the knocker made. I really recommend replacing the spindle nut with a new one anyway due to my experience of reusing them had been a hit and miss proposition keeping them tight afterwards.

 

[Shunta]

The knocker method is really super easy once you have the knocker made. I really recommend replacing the spindle nut with a new one anyway due to my experience of reusing them had been a hit and miss proposition keeping them tight afterwards.

Weeeeeellllllllllllllllllllllllllll
Here we go....
After going through ALL the above, and driving it around the yard a few times and then it sitting, I've got a nice collection of oil on the rim coming out from under the left front drum..... Only can mean one thing and that's the seal is bad....
SOOOOOOOOOOO
I'm going to give your (?Galions?) method a shot... came back here to read it for the 5th time to make sure I didn't miss anything....
I think my local nut and bolt shop has a castle nut this size so..... Might make a nut contraption on the lathe though... Dad had one for pulling lawnmower flywheels that was the same basic principal so...
I'll be back in a bit and let y'all know how it went hahahahaha

 

[Shunta]

The knocker method is really super easy once you have the knocker made. I really recommend replacing the spindle nut with a new one anyway due to my experience of reusing them had been a hit and miss proposition keeping them tight afterwards.

I have some words for you repowerguy..... and they are as follows....

New castle nut was pretty much not an option.... But a 1 3/8th's inch nut I had was....
So into the lathe it went


Once I had it turned to inside size, had to recut threads....


Which gave me a pretty little nut now after I turned the length of it down too...



Then came the "weld it to a frying pan of half inch steel" part...



Of course I DID check the thread to make sure it'd all go on FIRST!
<continued due to more pictures>