Ford in Fords not IH 2011

[Speedpup]

Monday, August 31, 2009
Ford to supply own Super Duty diesel engines
Bryce G. Hoffman / The Detroit News
Ford Motor Co. today announced plans to produce its own diesel engine for Ford Super Duty pickups.

The 6.7-liter turbocharged V-8 will debut on the next-generation 2011 F-Series Super Duty and is expected to offer "significant improvements in torque, horsepower and fuel economy while adding more fueling flexibility and easily meeting stringent new emissions requirements," the company said.

"This all-new diesel engine has been so extensively tested both in the lab and in the real world that we're confident we're giving our customers the most reliable and productive powertrain available today," said Derrick Kuzak, head of global product development at Ford. "Our Super Duty customers demand reliability and durability in their trucks so they can deliver the best results for their business and their customers. That's exactly what this engine delivers."

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Ford's diesel engines will replace the current ones being supplied by Navistar International Corp.


Wonder how big a truck they plan to put it in? 650 750 too?

 

[Cretebaby]

This has been known for about a year. Well maybe not a year but 6 months or better.

 

[Steve Frazier]

I wouldn't be surprised to see it in the 650 as the base engine, maybe even the 750 with optional upgrades available.

I sure hope Ford has done their homework on this engine, the last two PowerStroke engines were junk. Ford has built diesels in the past in their agricultural division. One of the six cylinder diesels from the tractors was adapted to serve in the medium duty trucks like the F-750 and L-8000, so they do have some past experience with these engines. I've got my fingers crossed.....

 

[Speedpup]

"This all-new diesel engine has been so extensively tested both in the lab and in the real world that we're confident we're giving our customers the most reliable and productive powertrain available today," said Derrick Kuzak, head of global product development at Ford.

They better hope so with all the bad press and expense they put in the last few. I have a 04 Ford 6.0 in an Excursion and it has been decent with a few gremlins with check engine light. I heard rumors of this as they fought with Ford but mever saw a Ford press release.

Wonder if it will help or hurt sales now if people wait or want am IH?

 

[Turbo21835]

curious about what kind of milage you get out of that 6.0 speedpup. Have yet to hear a good thing about them when it comes to mpg

 

[Speedpup]

curious about what kind of milage you get out of that 6.0 speedpup. Have yet to hear a good thing about them when it comes to mpg

55 mph on cruise 23 Towing my race car 14.9 Long Island to Pocono Trailer and car is about 7500+ = 1000 gear and tires..

New ones are worse than my 04 my dooley dodge is about the same but does not have as much power up hills.

 

[4x4_Welder]

The 2007+ are bad on mileage due to the DPF. They basically shoot some extra fuel out during the exhaust stroke to burn off the accumulated particulate matter in the filter. Thank the EPA for that one-

 

[Speedpup]

The 2007+ are bad on mileage due to the DPF. They basically shoot some extra fuel out during the exhaust stroke to burn off the accumulated particulate matter in the filter. Thank the EPA for that one-

yea heard all the newer trucks are bad Guess I'll be running mine for a long time, and then some.

 

[broman78]

at least you don't have to pull the cab to install injectors with the new 6.7.

 

[Dozerboy]

DPF can easy be deleted, but you will lose your warranty if caught.

I wish ford luck with there new engine. It has a lot of initiative things like the new 4.5L Dmax like reverse flow heads. And I think there new turbo might be a real winner.

More info

 

[rwatkins]

That just looks like a nightmare to me.

 

[Dozerboy]

Why is that? I do kind of wonder with the techs have to go to school just to learn how to put the serpentine belt on though.

 

[4x4_Welder]

Not going to be any worse than the current engine, at least you won't have to pull the cab to get to it.
The diesels in Ford trucks have been complex since 94, the going rumor is that "powerstroke" is a modified version of a Native American word that means "too many parts".
I just resealed the HPOP on my boss's 2000 F250 PSD, it took me a couple hours, a few select words, and a large number of tools including one I had to make. It wouldn't have been so bad if I didn't have to be on a ladder to get over the nose of that SD to begin with, but still- I'll take even an old IH 6.9 with a Banks turbo kit before one of these electronic things.
It was kinda nice using my 72 F250 with a nice new 360 to tow his truck home, though- Once I get rid of my axlewrap issues it'll be even nicer.

 

[surfer-joe]

The International engines have not evolved well as used in the Ford vehicles. That and the fact that Ford and International have wasted tons of bucks in court over the last several years led Ford to decide enough is enough. The fact that GM and Cummins engines were waxing Ford royally may have contributed as well.

However, like others mentioned here, Ford has not had good luck with their own diesels in past years. I for one, would never buy any Ford diesel.

Just went over a hundred thousand miles with my 08 Chev HD2500. One rear seal, a minor oil leak, a couple of bad senders were the only problems. The DPS exhaust parts are coming off soon......

I also just discovered that the odometer in my truck is off by 6 miles every 350 actual, as recorded by my GPS. I knew the speedo was off by 2 miles per hour. This is a lot of miles to lose for warranty purposes.

I'm currently running up to 2500 miles a week with the Chev. With good #2 fuel at 68 MPH, I'm getting about 21.5 MPG running unloaded/no trailer. With trailer full of tires and parts, 8.5-11 is the norm. B99.9 Biodiesel causes loss of 1.5-2 MPG.

The DuraMax could use some tweeking, but overall, it's a fine engine and I'm pleased with it.

 

[Steve Frazier]

However, like others mentioned here, Ford has not had good luck with their own diesels in past years. I for one, would never buy any Ford diesel.

Joe, I went back and read this thread again and found that I'm the only one here to have mentioned previous Ford built diesels, and I certainly didn't say anything negative about them. In fact, my opinion of the 6 cylinder Ford's in the intermediate duty trucks is they were a very good engine for their intended purpose. They took the proven 6 cylinder diesel from their agricultural division and suited it for truck use and it worked out well. It was never meant to be a powerhouse, it was for medium duty service to replace big cube gas engines, getting better fuel mileage and longer service life than their gas counterparts. It was a far better option than the Cat 3208 that was used before its introduction.

I'll wait and see how this works out before judging it. There sure are a lot of technical developments in this motor, I hope they've done a lot of testing in real world conditions.

I personally would prefer that Ford have gone to another inline 6 instead of the V8. If there are two engines of the same displacement in both a V8 and I6 configuration, the I6 will make more torque at lower RPM than the V8. I could care less what a pickup or small chassis truck does at a drag strip, I buy them for hauling and towing and an I6 does a better job of that.

Did anyone notice that Ford is dropping the standard transmission and will only offer a 6 speed automatic? That has me very concerned as Ford has yet to build a durable automatic suited for truck use. Outside a pickup, I've always spec'd a stick in my small chassis trucks.

 

[95zIV]

I sure hope Ford has done their homework on this engine, the last two PowerStroke engines were junk.

Steve,

Where the engines you talked about here Ford or another maker? I'm just asking because I don't know enough about them and this is a negative comment on PowerStrokes.

 

[Steve Frazier]

The Ford diesel program since 1982 has been in a partnership with International Harvester, IH has supplied the long block assemblies and then Ford fitted their own injection system to it. The earliest versions were naturally aspirated and had some cavitation problems, they didn't make a lot of power but got phenomenal fuel mileage and outside the cavitation issue were very reliable.

Mid 1995 Ford introduced the PowerStroke which had a new injection system and turbocharger and made some serious torque numbers. They had some minor issues with them with oil leaks and cam sensors, but were a pretty reliable engine and made good power. In mid 1998 they added an intercooler which brought more power yet and introduced it as a '99 model with the SuperDutys.

The engines I refer to are the 6.0 PowerStroke introduced in '03 and the 6.7 which came in '07. Both were designed to meet the EPA requirements of those periods, the 7.3 couldn't be made to conform. The 6.0 had a variable vane turbo which had a habit of grenading and contaminating the engine crankcase. Fred Pickering has had 3 of them that I know of in his fleet blow, one on the way home from the dealer brand new! In the quest to play the horsepower race with the other manufacturers, they have raised the RPMs beyond what IH ever intended and have seen a high failure rate as a result. I've driven an IH 4200 with the 365 which is the same engine as the 6.0 PowerStroke built to IH specs and it runs very well. Ford tweaked them for horsepower numbers and lost reliability as a result.

The 6.7 has a dual turbocharger system in place to meet emissions requirements and generates a tremendous amount of heat under the hood. It also has an exhaust gas recirculation emissions system that regenerates by injecting raw fuel into the exhaust to burn out collected soot. There were problems with this system too, if you look around youtube you'll find videos of these trucks shooting flames out the tailpipe as they regenerate. There has been a pretty high failure rate on these engines too, and a number of them have caught fire due to the high heat retention.

 

[4x4_Welder]

If you think about it, any time you get more power out of the same displacement, you loose life/reliability. Consider a Cummins NT series engine, 235hp out of 855CID. Now the 6BT, same horsepower out of 360CID. Which do you think will last longer, have a lower failure rate, etc?

I for one would absolutely love to have a Ford 401 straight six diesel, I drove a 135hp one in a 26' L8000 and it did decently. The 401 will -almost- fit in a pickup, if you modify the firewall and/or put the radiator somewhere else.
As far as no manual option, the engine does appear to have an SAE class 2 bellhousing, (the article mentions it uses a standard SAE bell), so I see no reason to not swap in a Clark, NP, or even an NV 5600. You'd have to figure out a flywheel, but chances are very good it is a zero-balance, and would be a symmetrical bolt pattern as such. You might have to get creative for a pilot bearing, but the other parts are already on the shelf.

FWIW, the EGR doesn't regen, that's the DPF. The flame issue has been tamed, but can be aggravated by running a performance tune.

 

[mikef87]

The 2007+ are bad on mileage due to the DPF. They basically shoot some extra fuel out during the exhaust stroke to burn off the accumulated particulate matter in the filter. Thank the EPA for that one-

Yeah, but some how thats better for the economy than the older motors??? Go figure.

 

[surfer-joe]

Steve, no one had to mention it. I've fought Ford diesels in everything from welders, water pumps, skidders, and generators to trucks and vans and pickups since 1958. In two words: they suck! I used to carry handfuls of pushrods and other parts to get the little bustards through a shift. The Brazilian Ford diesels in trucks were a major headache. Parts in this country were non-existent as Ford decided not to support the trucks very well. The International diesels used by FOMOCO were an admittance by Ford that they did not have the know how to build a good diesel engine.

I will have to agree with you that the 3208 Cat was most useful as a boat anchor. It was a little better than the GM 8.2, but not much in my book. You are also correct in that Ford never could build a reliable automatic transmission that could take a beating. The C6 was the closest, and most people that trashed those had to have them beefed up by a builder before or immediately after use. The later model light duty Ford trucks that I’ve looked over had a German transmission that was a real nightmare to work on. Never had one that would stand up to hard pulls, like in the oil patch or dirt jobs. The old Borg-Warner’s and even the Eaton’s were better.

If you think I’m totally biased concerning Ford trucks, you’d be correct. Don’t care if I ever see another one.