Ford 4500, first start in 6 years, need advice

[HardmanGT]

Hi guys. I just made a deal on a Ford 4500 TLB from a farmer that parked it 6 years ago and hasn't touched it since. He tells me it ran and operated well without problems prior to parking it. Now I have to get it transported to my house and get it operable again. I am looking for advice on getting it ready for transport and then what the best practice will be in getting it started.

The hauler wants me to chain the boom up tight to the tractor and I want to know if there will be any problems with the hydraulics if I just try and use a come along to move the boom and chain it up tight. Also, the stabilizers are in the down position so same question there.

I am thinking about changing out the fluids and filters, putting in a new battery and going from there. What advise can you give me?

should be a 740 FEL and the boom has evidence of once having 755 decals on it. It is also a torque converter model

 

[Delmer]

I would try to start it before moving it, then once it's home, start it again to warm up the fluids, then drain everything you want to change right away. First check the fluid levels: oil, coolant, hydraulic, transmission and fuel. Then check the drain plug on each for water, back it out till the oil seeps out and you're good to go, if water seeps out, then drain, flush and refill before starting. Not a bad idea to make sure the air filter is intact, not chewed up and full of acorns.

If there is a fuel primer pump, pump it until you get clean fuel with no air bubbles coming out of the vent you loosened on the filter or injection pump.

Keep the injection pump turned off (wire disconnected or just left off) and crank it for ten seconds/ wait two minutes until you get oil pressure, then turn the pump on and see if it starts.

I'd bring a good battery, good jumper cables/charger, tools to clean battery cable connections, hammer handle to rap the starter...

If you can move the hydraulics with a come along, you won't be doing any damage. Not sure if the stabilizers will come up or if there are "check valves" in the circuits? or how heavy the backhoe boom is compared to your come alongs? Don't forget to measure that backhoe boom height before you hit a bridge or take out electrical lines.

 

[HardmanGT]

I would try to start it before moving it, then once it's home, start it again to warm up the fluids, then drain everything you want to change right away. First check the fluid levels: oil, coolant, hydraulic, transmission and fuel. Then check the drain plug on each for water, back it out till the oil seeps out and you're good to go, if water seeps out, then drain, flush and refill before starting. Not a bad idea to make sure the air filter is intact, not chewed up and full of acorns.

If there is a fuel primer pump, pump it until you get clean fuel with no air bubbles coming out of the vent you loosened on the filter or injection pump.

Keep the injection pump turned off (wire disconnected or just left off) and crank it for ten seconds/ wait two minutes until you get oil pressure, then turn the pump on and see if it starts.

I'd bring a good battery, good jumper cables/charger, tools to clean battery cable connections, hammer handle to rap the starter...

If you can move the hydraulics with a come along, you won't be doing any damage. Not sure if the stabilizers will come up or if there are "check valves" in the circuits? or how heavy the backhoe boom is compared to your come alongs? Don't forget to measure that backhoe boom height before you hit a bridge or take out electrical lines.

very good advice! I have 4 ton come alongs

 

[sheepfoot]

I would bring my fluids and filters and try to start it with a good battery, I have gone after a lot of machines and drained the water out the drain plugs topped off lubes and brought them home. The only issue with chaining up the boom is trailer height while hauling 13' 6 " in nc, and the loading angle for the trailer so the bucket and stick will clear. Like said a good come along goes a long way.

 

[HardmanGT]

I have looked up the fluids and read about the UTF specs so I am clear or that part, not really clear on what engine oil to run. Manual calls for a DS 10, 20 or 30W depending on temp. I am guessing that the Rotella 15-40W will be just fine.

 

[CM1995]

I would try to start it before moving it, then once it's home, start it again to warm up the fluids, then drain everything you want to change right away. First check the fluid levels: oil, coolant, hydraulic, transmission and fuel. Then check the drain plug on each for water, back it out till the oil seeps out and you're good to go, if water seeps out, then drain, flush and refill before starting. Not a bad idea to make sure the air filter is intact, not chewed up and full of acorns.

If there is a fuel primer pump, pump it until you get clean fuel with no air bubbles coming out of the vent you loosened on the filter or injection pump.

Keep the injection pump turned off (wire disconnected or just left off) and crank it for ten seconds/ wait two minutes until you get oil pressure, then turn the pump on and see if it starts.

I'd bring a good battery, good jumper cables/charger, tools to clean battery cable connections, hammer handle to rap the starter...

If you can move the hydraulics with a come along, you won't be doing any damage. Not sure if the stabilizers will come up or if there are "check valves" in the circuits? or how heavy the backhoe boom is compared to your come alongs? Don't forget to measure that backhoe boom height before you hit a bridge or take out electrical lines.

Good advice. I would add that you also want to drain the fuel tank, flush it a little and put fresh fuel in before you start. A fuel tank sitting that long will more than likely have algae and rust. Get some extra fuel filters as you will need them. Check your air filter as Delmer stated, I would have a new one on hand and installed before I started it as cheap insurance.

Any good 15W-40 will work in our environment for engine oil.

 

[HardmanGT]

not off to a good start. The backhoe was delivered yesterday and I spent some time vacuuming out nests and then pressure washing. I grabbed a new 31 battery and wanted to see if it would turn over. The bendix was stuck so a kept rapping on it to see if it would engage. It finally did and it does not spin the motor at all. I grabbed my good jumper cables and pickup to see if that would help at all. It hasn't. This morning I pulled 2 of the 3 injectors and see it that would relieve compression and get it spinning. No such luck, even with jumper cables on.

So I am low on ideas at this point. I have the water pump/alternator belt off just in case they are part of the problem. What else could be keeping this from spinning over? Seized
front hydraulic pump?

I did notice my truck would bog down when I tried to start the hoe. The battery cables on the hoe got hot FAST. Do I just have a junk starter?

 

[leisureexpress]

I wouldn't try the electric starter system again until you are assured the motor will spin free - wouldn't want to fry it.

I know it is basic, but it is in neutral, right?

Can you get a bar in the crankshaft somewhere to spin it, or break it free? Can you get a socket on a flywheel? Take a picture of the front motor area if able.

Pull with truck to attempt to "bump start" or bump the engine free.....???

 

[HardmanGT]

it's a torque converter transmission. I have the gear selector in neutral and I can't say for sure if the other lever is in forward or neutral. I am trying not to force it since I don't know what damage that might do.

I pulled the starter to take a look and found a big nest behind the flywheel. Cleaned it out with the shop vac but I have no Idea how the little guys got in there in the first place!

 

[leisureexpress]

Well, the torque converter shouldn't be holding you up much

I "think" I have heard of some guys here using a pry bar on the ring gear (after the starter was removed) to turn the engine over one small tooth at a time. Needless to say be very careful to not break a tooth off.

Can you get a pry bar on anything of the crankshaft up front?

 

[HardmanGT]

Pretty tight up there and the only thing I might be able to get on to would be the front shaft to the hydraulic pump. I am going to see if the pry bar on the ring gear will work

 

[HardmanGT]

Pry bar on the ring gear didn't do much. Pry bar through the front universal didn't do much either. I and wondering if some water might have gotten down the muffler and stuck the pistons or something.

 

[leisureexpress]

I would take the exhaust manifold off next to see if there is contamination from water - ie rust. And/or take pump off front so you can get a good grip on the crank and hopefully get it to move. If it is rusted (piston/cyl bore) you would probably do more damage by getting it started and running than by just taking it down and cleaning it up - repair & replace as necessary.

Others might recommend something else, this road (dealing with stuck motor) is well travelled by experienced mechanics.

 

[Plebeian]

Is there a borescope available ? 1) Take off the top engine cover to see if the valves go up and down 2) Take out injectors, small tube through injector hole and soak top of pistons with engine oil.
3) Take starter motor to auto-electricians to check how well it works on test rig. Ignition key can also be faulty and not allow full flow of electricity.
4) Check battery clamps are not cracked. Battery earth lead should be earthed on bottom bolt that holds on the starter motor.
-Very likely pistons can be seized in bore, or valves seized, even with a shower cap muffler as the wind in storms opens shower cap and lets in water,
Check hydraulic valves are in neutral position when trying to start.

 

[aussie bobcat]

remove the injectors and put 3 or 4 teaspoons of diesel down each injector hole this can help free rhe rings and piston from bore and letbsoak for a day or so then as others have suggested get a bar onto crank and try rocking back and forward

 

[sheepfoot]

Yes been there, bought one at a golf course with a 8" pine growing up between the loader and battery door, tried the starter, pulled the starter, pried on the ring gear, pump drive shaft no engine turning. Pulled the head on the spot and had a cylinder full of water, took the water off, soaked it with pb blaster and marvel for an hour, rapped a chain around the engine, cut a 4x4 block, installed a 7 ton bottle jack on top and eased it down, honed the bore, washed it out, put the head and old gasket back on, fired it up, and drove it out from the dump area that day. Had to use the backhoe to dig my way out. It is likely their is water on the piston if it has been sitting that long and stuck, I have bought several as is with the same findings if they ran when parked and not had the muffler covered. This one had steering issues with the casting cracked at the linkage under the pump. I don't waste a lot of time with them, snatch the head, the gasket is cheaper than another starter/fly wheel tooth replacement. Keep us up on your findings !

 

[HardmanGT]

Yes been there, bought one at a golf course with a 8" pine growing up between the loader and battery door, tried the starter, pulled the starter, pried on the ring gear, pump drive shaft no engine turning. Pulled the head on the spot and had a cylinder full of water, took the water off, soaked it with pb blaster and marvel for an hour, rapped a chain around the engine, cut a 4x4 block, installed a 7 ton bottle jack on top and eased it down, honed the bore, washed it out, put the head and old gasket back on, fired it up, and drove it out from the dump area that day. Had to use the backhoe to dig my way out. It is likely their is water on the piston if it has been sitting that long and stuck, I have bought several as is with the same findings if they ran when parked and not had the muffler covered. This one had steering issues with the casting cracked at the linkage under the pump. I don't waste a lot of time with them, snatch the head, the gasket is cheaper than another starter/fly wheel tooth replacement. Keep us up on your findings !

LOL I love that ingenuity!

So I have gotten deeper into this thing and it is full of water and foulness that came in through the exhaust. I pulled the manifold and it is rough! By rough, I mean it looks like mud and heavy sediment in the manifold and the exhaust ports. The rear 2 cylinders got it bad, I don't know if the front cylinder was effected. I think it sat at enough of an angle that the water never made it into there.

I pulled the valve cover and tapped on all the valves the exhaust valves on the rear 2 are hanging. At this point I am sure I will have to remove the head and go from there. Might have to use the sheepfoot method

 

[HardmanGT]

head is off, #3 is probably a lost cause

is it possible to drop the oil pan on this 4500 and swap out a new piston?

 

[HardmanGT]

 

[HardmanGT]

double post