Fire Suppression - Boomer's , Heli's , Tanker's , Trucks, ect

[jackd]

That is a Lockheed L-188 Electra the civilian version of the P3 Orion I believe.

The old Douglas DC-6's are no longer around for fire fighting duties. It's getting harder and harder to get Avgas and I imagine that the parts supply for radial engines is getting kind of tight too. I know that most present day mechanics would dread to work on those things - I've done it and gas turbines are a much easier gig. The Mars is one of the last of the breed and even Coulson has now got a C-130 Hercules operating for them down in the States, from what I hear. The only down side to the gas turbines is that they're kind of thirsty at lower altitude - especially the older ones like the Electra and Convairs. The Cl-415 with newer P & W 123's on it might be cheaper to operate but they probably cost big bucks to buy.

 

[Born2clearcut]

Philippine and the Hawaii Mars
Picture one is the Hawaii Mars sitting in Lake Cowichan in front of Caycuse in 1964. Picture 2 is the Philippine Mars sitting in Lake Cowichan in front of Caycuse 1968. I'm going by the tail colors to tell who is who, maybe someone can comfirm this ?

 

[jackd]

Philippine and the Hawaii Mars
Picture one is the Hawaii Mars sitting in Lake Cowichan in front of Caycuse in 1964. Picture 2 is the Philippine Mars sitting in Lake Cowichan in front of Caycuse 1968. I'm going by the tail colors to tell who is who, maybe someone can comfirm this ?

That's how I tell them apart - though the Hawaii seems to have gone through a variation of either a complete red vertical stab/rudder paint scheme or the earlier red vertical stab/white rudder paint scheme. The Philipine all white tail paint scheme is now just a memmory....

 

[Hayesno1]

I shot this picture in Fort St. John Airport(Nothern BC) summer 2010

 

[Hayesno1]

This is my favirite fire truck - an old Hayes WHD. She is very special and looks great.

 

[HDX]

Hayesno1 Yes old 36-92 is a classy old girl and does deserve to be saved. However she had a runnaway up in the Courtenay area of operations and was rolled over onto the drivers side I think The Cummins engine was over-reved and that put an end to that How-ever we are looking for another cummins to stuff into it. The big water tank on the back has been cut off so she is down to cab and chassis Long ago I ran the s/n of her and it seems to me she was originally a Cattermole truck and then with BCFP taking everything over she ended up at Elk River Timber Camp 8 Not sure on this though Maybe one of the ERT guys could shed some light on this. She is spect out the same as the ERT HDs were with the 47-40 rears and 14:00X24 tires . We know they had unit #s 14 15 and 17 were all the same only they had the GM 6-110 engines I will try and find where I wrote the s/n down and re-run it OK

 

[Born2clearcut]

1958 Harris Creek
Heres a BCFP water tank ( no legs yet ) on back of a Hayes sry couldn't see the truck number. Picture 3 is a close up of picture 2

 

[245dlc]

How many gallons could you guys carry in one of those tanks? Were they baffled by chance?

 

[Hayesno1]

1958 Harris Creek
Heres a BCFP water tank ( no legs yet ) on back of a Hayes sry couldn't see the truck number. Picture 3 is a close up of picture 2

Born2clearcut; Great pictures as usual. I have never seen this type of tank before with rounded corners and raised so tank level out with top of bunk. I guess it was not very easy to drive that truck when tank was sitting so high(high gravity)

 

[Born2clearcut]

Born2clearcut; Great pictures as usual. I have never seen this type of tank before with rounded corners and raised so tank level out with top of bunk. I guess it was not very easy to drive that truck when tank was sitting so high(high gravity)

Thanks alot Hayesno1 , I thought this tank was alittle odd also, but you just never know what you'll see in the bush .I hope to do some more scanning and resizing very soon .

 

[HDX]

Hayesno1 That was how they were back before industry introduced the Pre-Load trucks to the scene. Usually there was a jinpole around camp that would lift the tanks onto the back of the trucks. Disgruntled driver would come back from the log dump with the trailer down and unhook it then go over and usually the Fire Warden of his helper were there to help you drop the tank on the back of the truck. The tanks were built in such a way that they would straddle the bunk and then the driver would chain everything down and then go over and fill the tank The above tank was from a rail road application and that explains the rounded corners--a close up would reveal the rivits. This tank was really built up to straddle the bunk. That kept it from sliding around And Yes all the tanks had baffles in them. These tanks held anywhere from 2000Gals to 5000Gals. With the introduction of the PreLoad trucks it became a lot faster to swap from a logging configuration to Fire Tanker ready. The stand alone tanks with the legs are only for the preloads whereas the style tank pictured above would only fit on the Conventional trucks and would use some kind of lifting device to load/unload them.The tanks would have some kind of fire pump bolted to the top of the tank as well as a box full of shovels and polaski's and spare 100ft legnths of hose. Most now are a small Honda or something like that to pump the water up/down to the fire and the driver is the pump operator. Many a WAJAX Fire pump got abused because they would not start and drivers are not known to have a very long fuse Just grab a spray can of instant power (either) she will go. When you see some of the equipment around today that would be used in the event of a forest fire I think the best thing anybody could do is drive it right into the fire as a peace offering and hope the fire would go out itself

 

[245dlc]

It's ashame those Wajax pumps would get abused like that they are a phenomenal little machine. Our Fire Department here has an old milk tanker with a big dump gate at the back for filling portable pools, but no pump so I'm trying to convince the other members that we should mount either a proper fire pump like a Wajax or a Honda powered equivalent or our big C.E.T. pump just with quick release fittings so we can still use it to draft from ponds and creeks. I think the tank which is unbaffled holds about 4,000 gallons or so.

 

[69hayes]

I remember those little two cycle floater pumps that you hooked a hose on then proceeded to rip the skin off your hand trying to start, they used to pull the starter cord right through your fingers, once running you threw them out on the water and they pumped away until out of gas then repeat the process all over, I can't remember the name on these devil pumps.

 

[245dlc]

Yeah I've had to fight with those things before I can't recall if they were another Wajax manufacturer but I think they were simply called floto-pumps.

 

[HDX]

245dlc Dont get me wrong here NOT all the pumps were treated in such a manner but from time to time a pump would not start no matter what you did. Wajax were by far the BEST there was around for the use they got. Every logging fire hall had these things lined up and all serviced ready to go. After the truck had the tank loaded on the back while it was filling with water the Fire Warden and his helper would pass up the fire pump and the driver would bolt the pump down with the suction hose already on it. There was a huge plywood box already on them with axe's and shovels as well as hundreds of feet of hose rolled up all stowed away. The 5 gallon Jerry cans were the fuel tanks for these pumps and they were usually stowed in with the fire equipment.

 

[245dlc]

Oh I believe it. I spent my latter years as a teenager on a Volunteer Fire Department we were classified as cadets and weren't suppose to see much front line action but due to manpower shortages and because we were a small organization I got the same training and got quite familiar with the Wajax pumps. The one floto pump we had despite good maintenance practices always was a challenge. A little later on in my 5 years with that Fire Department I got onto Manitoba Conservation's Emergency Fire Fighter (EFF) list and even got some of their so called training (I've heard they don't do much if any training anymore) and they had the same issues with the 'flotopumps'. Now I'm married and settled down and out of the city I joined the local Fire Department here, and they certainly don't have much for wildland equipment despite how many moving grassfires and bushfires we've been getting as of late. However they did manage to buy a second backpack leaf blower which works wonders on grassfires and a combination rescue/bush truck with a remote controlled monitor and 300 gallon tank. A friend of mine made a bracket to mount a gas powered pump to fit onto our pumper so we can do pump and roll operations with it and I'm trying to convince them to do the same for the tanker but with a V-twin 20 horsepower pump. Where did you guys get water in that mountainous country?

 

[dunwurken]

It's ashame those Wajax pumps would get abused like that they are a phenomenal little machine. Our Fire Department here has an old milk tanker with a big dump gate at the back for filling portable pools, but no pump so I'm trying to convince the other members that we should mount either a proper fire pump like a Wajax or a Honda powered equivalent or our big C.E.T. pump just with quick release fittings so we can still use it to draft from ponds and creeks. I think the tank which is unbaffled holds about 4,000 gallons or so.

What do you have under the tanker for a truck. The best setup I have seen/used was a tanker truck (2500gals)with a PTO driven pump. They were plumbed up so that the PTO pump could be used to pump water from the tank to the fire or by switching valves the PTO pump could draw water from a pond or other water source to fill the tank or the PTO pump could draw water from a creek or pond and send directly to the fire hoses bypassing the tank altogether. The tank also had additional quick couplers to use Wajax pumps. When starting a Wajax do not put the starting cord between you fingers but grab the cord with your whole hand ahead of the knob so that when it backfires it doesn't rip it out between your fingers. Learned that trick years ago with the old chain saw in the 60s. Also if you are using a Wajax on the ground be sure to protect several of the first few feet of the fire hose as the vibration from the Wajax will quickly wear holes in the hose especially on gravel or shot rock roads. Protection in this case is just something under the hose like boards or branches or whatever is at hand.

 

[HDX]

Out here we have Fire Tanker Fill up sites at a number of lakes and creeks as well as a few really old rail road tanks that are placed high on a bank at the side of the road with a creek running close to it. In the summer the pipe from the RR tank is thrown into the creek and it fills with water over a period of time and when full it just spills over the top and overflow goes back into the creek. (in the fall these are drained and just left)These will fill at least two big Tankers before being drained and by then the Fire Warden has his Volume pumps set up in the lake or river as seen in the above pictures. Every logging side has a small fire truck right near the landing that is used in the event they get a fire going due to running lines over a rock face or siwashed around a stump.These are used untill the big tankers get there if needed. Some camps might have had as many as 15 sides working so every one had a small truck there as a first responder. These were quite often very old badly worn units with a water tank and a Wajax pump mounted on them and a coat of red paint-- but with the big tankers as back-up it worked very well. In 1967 there was a terrible fire out on the Alberni/Tofino highway called the Taylor River fire Started with a BC Hydro accident. In terms of equipment and manpower it was incredible All the logging camps had tanker trucks and off highway lowbeds hauling cats and equipment everywhere as well as anything that would hold water was there -- Martin Mars bombers, Even Kelsey Bay Division sent down a couple fire tankers (Kenworth Chain Drives) Now that must have been one hell of a trip for them!!!! Funny that very few pictures survived that because there are not many around. In the forest today if there is a fire we dont fight it anymore because we are not Qualified!!!!! The BC Government has QUALIFIED PEOPLE to do this kind of thing. You must have a certificate to show that you can actually fight fire! OH and a uniform! IMAGINE if you will a bunch of loggers running nilly willy all over out there in the toulies with a fire hose. A formula for disaster! Every year we must take an online coarse to prove that you are worthy and understand that in the event of a fire you WILL not be a dummie you will GET IN THE CRUMMIE and you will leave the area post haste !!! Leave it to the people that are trained for such things. My how time has changed. We still have the Fire Tankers but they are more for show and tell than fighting fires. BUT they are fun to drive Kind of like a time machine if you will Two sticks and a buzzin duzzin!!! pure music

 

[245dlc]

Well currently our Fire Department doesn't have a Wajax sadly and when I showed the Chief what one costs I don't think he was impressed (the new ones with a 4 stage pump are $5,000CAD).
As for a tanker ours is a late 90's Freightline FL-80 with a 3306 Cat coupled to an Allison Automatic with leaf suspension. We do have a large portable four stroke pump that uses the hard suction pipes from our pumper if we need to fill tankers or draft from a pond or creek it has two 2 2 1/2" discharges and it can fill our tanker with a single 2 1/2" line in about 15 minutes or so. I don't know enough about tranny's to know if we could put a pto and a pump on it so that's why I suggested using our big pump I described before so at least we can have a pump and roll capability. But here's a couple pictures of our tanker from my photobucket page.

Oh this is the pump we have
http://www.abcfireandsafety.com/product_p/cet-firepumppfp-20hphnd-2d.htm

 

[dunwurken]

That's a darn good looking water tank compared to what I'm used to. As far as the Allison is concerned there will be a plate on it to accommodate a PTO output. All I'm suggesting is an option for you. I found the trucks with the PTO pump had versatility, gave us options and seemed to be able to roll up to the fire and start pumping water while everybody farted around for a while trying to get their Wajax pumps working