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Finish Grading with Skiploaders

carlsharp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
91
Location
Chino Hills, CA
I started this thread to discuss finish grading with skiploaders, also called landscape loaders (Deere), industrial loaders (Cat) or loader/toolcarrier [?!] (Case). So fire away with any questions, comments or experiences.

Also I’ll pepper in some current and past projects (ala rollover pete!) and some custom modifications I’ve made to make the job better or faster.

A little about me-
I have been an equipment operator in southern California for over 20 years, but I started at the very bottom, running shovels, water hoses etc for a company that did mostly oilfield work. Like many small companies you work your way up as you show ability, and most of the guys there could run everything that was needed. I spent a lot of years as a mechanic, then dump truck, water truck, loader, dozer, backhoe etc as was needed. I instilled in me the importance of versatility, and how you will always work if you can do every job.

I eventually had the chance to hook up with a union company, mostly running backhoes, and a little skip work. After that I worked for a while doing a big mass grade in Orange County, and every time the foreman asked if I could run something I said yes! So by the time I left there I had run every machine in the spread. There were some good times on D9s and push-pull 637s!

After that I got called out of the hall to run an 824, and as the job was winding down the owner asked if I could run a skip, as he had one but no operator. So the next day I was out on his skip, still covered in spider webs from being parked! He was a great boss and I was with him over 5 years, He had a bunch of equipment that was all paid for but not enough work to keep operators so it was just me, running the D8L, 950 and skip, with occasional stints on the D6 and 623. Good Times! It was all rental work so I was in a different place every few days.

Well the other equipment eventually got sold, so it was just skip work. There was a medium sized mass grader who really liked my work, and kept me busy all the time. They said I was the only operator they did not have to babysit, that is, they lined me out once and didn’t have to worry about me for the rest of the day. They even had me working unsupervised on Saturdays, unusual in that industry. That, and I could keep up finishing house pads behind 3 D6s with lasers, sometimes 25 a day.

As I became closer to them they kept telling me I should be working for myself, I already was just like being an owner, I did all the maintenance, fueling, etc and did not see my boss for weeks at a time. After much convincing I decided to take the leap, so I sat down with the boss and shared my intentions, and offered to buy his skip. He declined the offer but was very encouraging, and gave the fuel tank I had been using, (full of fuel!) and helped me get set up, including forwarding all his skip clients to me.

So in 2003 I refi-ed my house, found and bought a skip, fixed it up, got set up with the union, a corporation, etc all just in time to start a pretty big job, like 200 house pads. I was in the black before I left there :) They kept me as busy as I could possibly be for several years, problem was, I lost touch with all the clients I had gained from my last job. I had all my eggs in one basket. So guess what happened next- the bottom fell out.

So now I get by, with odd jobs and fill in work and selling antique tractors and parts from the collection I amassed when the money was good. Anybody need any help? :)
 

carlsharp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
91
Location
Chino Hills, CA
My tractor of choice is the Ford/New Holland 545D, as I’ve been working around these tractors for my entire career. The same basic tractor is under the early 555, 655 and 755 backhoes and is based way back in the 2N/8N/9N and its agricultural decendants.

This is my first tractor all fixed up and ready to go to its first job. It has since paid for itself several times over, it’s pretty worn and in semi retirement. I bought another one just before things fell apart, and it's paid for, so when the time is right I can jump right back in...

Skip2_20KB.jpg
 
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roddyo

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
788
Location
Arkansas
Occupation
Manipulator of the Planet
Good to have you here.

I have always wanted a Skip but have never been round one.
 

580bruce

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Messages
214
Location
entiat wa
It has always seemed to me a 580 size skiploader-with box scraper,and a pc-45 would be a great combo to own!
 

carlsharp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
91
Location
Chino Hills, CA
Yesterday I had a job placing base for a hospital parting lot with a JD 210LE. Mixed placed and graded 300 tons in about 6 hours.
0920110808.jpg
0920110808a.jpg

There was a fancy new Cat on the job, what's unique about them is the joystick control for the box. I've only got to play with one for a few minutes, and I can see how it could be pretty fast once you learned how to use it. From an owners POV all i see is a bunch of electronics to go bad.
0920111339.jpg
0920111509a.jpg

For those of you unfamiliar with skips this is the same control on the Deere-
0920111345.jpg
 

Bob Horrell

Charter Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2003
Messages
424
Location
Acton, CA
Occupation
Owner/Operator grading business
I too got to spend a little time with the CAT skiploader. I didn't like it. It's center of gravity was too high and I thought the controls sucked. It would be a great machine for loader work but I think it lacks in the finish grading department. I have well over 10,000 hours on skiploaders, and in that time have been on a lot if different ones. I personally own and prefer the John Deere.
If you do a lot of work like in your pictures, check out the roadrunner grader attachment, www.roadrunnerblade.com. What you did in 6hrs. you could do in about 4hrs with the roadrunner. They are great for finishing grading large areas, roads, and spreading material. I got my first one over 7 years ago. One of the best investments I have made.
 

carlsharp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
91
Location
Chino Hills, CA
Hey Bob-
Wow that is pretty handy! I can see how if someone had a large contract it would pay off.

Re: the 6 hours- I was waiting for trucks, too.. :)
 

oceanobob

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2010
Messages
751
Location
oceano california
Occupation
general contractor
The bigger problem in California besides no work is the taking of the older machines by the CARB folks - oh, they dont actually take the machine, just the operation of it.
*
The JD and the Case are the fave's around here as long as they are 4WD - the low end torque of the JD motor causes a little more wheelspin than the Case.
Put some material in the bucket and place machine in 4WD then one can cut some grade.
*
The Roadrunner blade box - does it have two blades? One at a skewed angle? I saw one once but would typically run a Gannon as for myself.
 

dirtmonkey

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2009
Messages
342
Location
norman oklahoma
Occupation
dozer monkey , self employed
CARL,Thanks for posting this ! Boxblade work is an art and it takes a feel just like everything else. I grew up in this business and my father always prefered ag tractors for boxblade work, thats where our reputation got started in 1979, but i have never operated a commercial boxblade tractor. We have been doing more dozer work lately but i am considering another tractor. After all those years of TRACTOR NECK, you know what i mean, i discovered they have swivel seats !!:Banghead I am leaning toward cat or deere but also discoverd the ag tractors are coming out with swivel seats now. The controls on the CAT i am really interested in because its more what im used to but i am willing to think out side my little box. Any input would helpful and would love to here opinions on the other tractors! :notworthy May we all have success!:drinkup
 

OldandWorn

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Messages
908
Location
Md/Pa
CARL,Thanks for posting this ! Boxblade work is an art and it takes a feel just like everything else. I grew up in this business and my father always prefered ag tractors for boxblade work, thats where our reputation got started in 1979, but i have never operated a commercial boxblade tractor. We have been doing more dozer work lately but i am considering another tractor. After all those years of TRACTOR NECK, you know what i mean, i discovered they have swivel seats !!:Banghead I am leaning toward cat or deere but also discoverd the ag tractors are coming out with swivel seats now. The controls on the CAT i am really interested in because its more what im used to but i am willing to think out side my little box. Any input would helpful and would love to here opinions on the other tractors! :notworthy May we all have success!:drinkup

This is my first and only Ag tractor and I went WAY out of my way to eliminate tractor neck. For utility work, tractors just seemed backwards to me but a skid steer didn't fit the bill either. You can't see in the pic but the entire operator station can rotate forward or backwards in about 15 seconds. Steering, dash, controls, seat, everything spins as a unit. As long as you are aware of what is behind you it's really easy to use the boxblade in reverse and it becomes a nice dirt pusher going forward. Actually I think I got the direction of travel switched around but you get the point.

When I find some time I'm going to add hydraulic cylinders to one of the 3-point arms and top link for more precise grading without having to make manual adjustments. Since the direction of work I do is split about 50/50 between my other attachments I couldn't figure out which direction to mount my tires so I split them 50/50 as well.

P6050001.jpg
 

dirtmonkey

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2009
Messages
342
Location
norman oklahoma
Occupation
dozer monkey , self employed
Gotta ask, what is that !?? Looks cool and very outside the box! Never seen any thing like that in Okla. , dealer support ???? :beatsme
 

OldandWorn

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Messages
908
Location
Md/Pa
It's an Italian Antonio Carraro steep slope vinyard tractor. Great dealer support in PA, don't know about Okla. though. The US importer is in California and they seem to stock a boatload of parts. The price of new was out of my budget but I found a used one in Arizona. I was working on the A/C and all of the metalwork around the engine was still off.
 
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carlsharp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
91
Location
Chino Hills, CA
dirtmonkey-
I don't have any experience on the Cat but my primary objections would be that they are HUGE, expensive, and that the joystick controls 6 or 7 functions, so there are that many switches, wires and solenoids (or whatever) to fail. At around $100 an hour a $5 part can lose you $500 pretty quick.

Oldandworn-
Same question- what the heck is it? You have some great ideas, i was thinking of doing the same thing with a JCB Fastrac or other equal-size-wheel tractor they offer. Think about how sweet it would be to finish next to an inside curved curb with a articulated or dual-steer tractor!

On tractor neck-
On the 545D, I use a remote hydraulics adapter to move the control valves from the trans to the top of the right fender (look close at post #2). We call it "Massey Controls". Also i add right side brake pedals so I can sit side saddle, that is, both of my feet are on the right side, so my head does not have to swivel all the way around :roll
 

Greasypin

Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
20
Location
WI
Occupation
mechanic
i run a tractor in snow thats looks just like your 545d execpt mine is only two wheel drive 7.5 truck blade mounted to the front and runs off the remote hyd. which have been moved off the tranny and on to the right fender and on the back is a large capacity box blade works good for backing up to garage doors and pulling away
 

BLconst

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2008
Messages
68
Location
So Cal
Carl, It seems skip loaders are a california thing. nice 545. The cat one seems too high, like its just a backhoe with a gannon. I like the deere myself, followed by the 545.
 

carlsharp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
91
Location
Chino Hills, CA
Yeah, BL. I have heard that they are less common in other parts of the US. SO, everyone else, how do YOU grade parking lots and sidewalks? Finish grade building pads?
 

mitch504

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2010
Messages
5,776
Location
Andrews SC
There are a few around here, but the term "skiploader" isn't. They are just "loader tractors", or occasionally "landscape loaders". I always thought "skiploader" was just a regional term for any front end loader.

Most grading like that here is done with little dozers and graders, though we've always had 1 or 2 around.
 

dirthog28

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
135
Location
Illionois
Parking lots and Building pads = Dozer or Grader with lasers or GPS
Sidewalks = Dozer, Grader, Skidsteer or Mini-Excavator depends on size, how much and type of conditions


I've only seen a few landscapers with old Ford tractors like that around here, blows my mind you'd use a tractor/box grader to grade 200-300 house pads. Always interesting to see how different regions of the US use different equipment and methods.
 

carlsharp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
91
Location
Chino Hills, CA
dirthog- just to clarify, the skip isn't grading the the pads, just finishing them. It varies, but the company I worked for punched pads with D6s with lasers, and a grade checker doing layout, to within 1/10th of an inch. they would usually let the dozers get about 50 pads ahead of me so they would not be it the way. Then I come in, slick off the slopes, pretty up the toes, cut the neatlines and spin out the pad. I could get 15-25 a day depending on the size, material and details.

The funny part is all my work sometimes only lasted a few days, (but it looked great!) and the underground guys would show up and blow it all away. But it had to be done to get approved by survey, soils, gov agencies, and the developer, so we could get paid. It was satisfying to know that after all the dirtwork, sometimes millions of yards, with all the equipment involved, what people actually SAW, was MY work.
 

wnydirtguy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2010
Messages
218
Location
Mooresville North Carolina
Do not see my of these tractors used around here. I can see how they would be nice to do a fast site clean up. I have often wondered if a JCB Fastrac would be a good multi use tractor for stuff like what you do. Would like to see some pics of the work you do.
 
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