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Finish Grading with Skiploaders

Discussion in 'General Industry Questions' started by carlsharp, Sep 21, 2011.

  1. BLconst

    BLconst Well-Known Member

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    I was doing some work in washington state and had to sub some paving work out, they use mini excavtor to do the removal, I didnt see too many bobcats up there, and no skip loaders. I wonder how the dozer get in and around parking island planters. I dont see any dozers on small commercial sites, and rarely a blade (grader for the rest of the country). The rest of the country is missing out on the skip. Every paver out here has a one toothed gannon and a roller behing the dump. They even pave asphalt with the gannon.
     
  2. carlsharp

    carlsharp Well-Known Member

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    wnydirt-
    Funny thing about finish grading- the better you do, the less it looks like you did anything :( and pics just look like nice, flat dirt. I'll post some as this thread moves along, but the subtleties of swales and grade breaks are usually lost.

    These pads are for a row of tack sheds at a horse ranch. All the cuts, fills and slopes were done with a skip. There was NO hand work before these pics were taken. Each pad is about 10' wide and the slopes are 2-3'.

    DSC01723.JPG
    DSC01726.JPG
    DSC01724.JPG

    See what i mean? Hard to tell what it is.
    I don't know of any other machine that can leave this level of finish. But I'd love to hear how others would do it...
     
  3. stock

    stock Senior Member

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    We have moved on and now were lost....
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    never seen one of the size over here, some of the landscape contractors I know use them on ,mini tractors.......
     
  4. dirtmonkey

    dirtmonkey Senior Member

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    I have driven the CAT around the lot and it did seem like a hoe with a box blade, kind of splashy . Havent demo'd a deere yet but, will soon. The reality of it is we can still buy a 40-60 hp ag tractor with a cab and more toys for the base price of skip.We normally make e few mods like fluids in tires and stick extension on the draft ( or 3 point ) control for more precise control .Thats probably what Ill end up with , no more than it will get used, it should last a life time. Although it would be nice to have the power and weight of the skip...the never ending dilemma.
     
  5. dirtmonkey

    dirtmonkey Senior Member

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    Carl, here in Okla. residential house pads and final grades are done starts to finish with either a CTL or tractor and boxblade , most with starting grade of 2 feet or under, anything over that i normally use my dozer depending on the situation. My preference is to use the ctl if i can and with very precise or "pavement" looking results. On finals around homes i use a 66' wide ctl with a 4n1 bucket and a smaller skid under 4 feet or a small 13 hp tractor with a boxblade.The way i see it is i have a $65,000.00 wheel barrow and rake, so if i have to use the reel thing something went wrong!:eek: Although there is a proper time and place for everything.:pointhead What sucks here in Okla is 5 foot building line between homes when it comes to final grades and we have more hills than u think and tyring to keep the ROPS from taking out the fence next door when keeping to the 3.5:1-4:1 slope:Banghead:Banghead
     
  6. dirtmonkey

    dirtmonkey Senior Member

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    Anyone used the Case 570 ?
     
  7. Taylortractornu

    Taylortractornu Charter Member

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    We dont use them here much. THe only 2 contractors here that have them locally is APAC has a 480LL with a gannon and Bonds company had either a 580 or 480 similar set up with a 4 in 1 . He sold out to APAC and bought a few machines back and does sub work.

    I ran a 545 a little and really like the down pressure, power top link and side link grading much faster than an ag tractor. In 2wd you can loose traction but I put it in 4 wheel drive and a ful bucket and it has some power. One a friend had I built him a durabilt style grader blade with a roller on back and a flip down bock for material moving. Around here most grading is done with a dozer but my brother does alot with his D Allis Chalmers grader.

    My old 3550 Ford hoe is built like a 545 with a hoe and 2wd. THe hoe clamps on the back a sorta quick tach. They did have a power lift attach ment that fit into the hoe's place and had a valve bank on it and ran a Gannon box. I think the whole set up was Gannon. Im wanting to build one for mine so in the winter when Im not using the hoe I can have a beefy landscape loader.
     
  8. carlsharp

    carlsharp Well-Known Member

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    In the early days of the first company I worked for they ran Ford 4500s with the hoe that hangs on the back. Two big bolts and two hyd lines and off it came. They would do a backhoe job one day and a grading or mowing or discing or rototiller job the next, all with the same tractor. Talk about low overhead! Except for some upgrades, my 545 is identical to a 4500.
    Doing skip work with a manual trans sucks, the shuttles were real nice when the came out, and four wheel drive revolutionized the industry.
     
  9. dirtmonkey

    dirtmonkey Senior Member

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    I see more deere 210lj's on the commercial side of things but none with a cab. A used rental might be an option but i really prefer a cab. From what i can tell deere still has the PTO where as cat does not, that would be nice. I could run my old toys:D
     
  10. dirtmonkey

    dirtmonkey Senior Member

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    CARL BTW that was nice looking work on that hillside!:notworthy Setting your own grade and laying those out must have been fun:)
     
  11. carlsharp

    carlsharp Well-Known Member

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    Thanks dirtmonky. I dunno if this makes it better or worse, but It was all eyeballed. There was no layout done or measuring devices used :)
    There was a level on the gannon, a trick I'll show later as we get into mods...

    Re: PTO- Really? I had to look that up. I thought PTO's were lost as they got away from ag-based tractors. Now that the 3-point is part of the frame i wonder where they snake it thru? If anyone has a pic, I couldn't find one on the web...
     
  12. carlsharp

    carlsharp Well-Known Member

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    Ah Ha! I just needed a few more minutes on the web. According the the JD parts diagrams, (http://jdpc.deere.com) it is a hydraulic pto, with motor and gearbox mounted in the 3-point structure and a separate (from the main) pump. Seems like that would make a LOT of heat...
     
  13. Taylortractornu

    Taylortractornu Charter Member

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    A friend has one as a yard mule for his implement mfg facility. Its a Ford but built more on a TLB frame. It looked like a 455D. It has a PTO on it and a weight box and hitch. It also has a set of forks and a jinpole for the loadser to. The PTO had and air compressor that had a tank on the counter weight.
    Its jup for sale in a few months and I was thinking about buying it if its within reason.

    My 3550 has the same hoe set up as the 4500 I even had a beat up 4500 for a few months one time. My 3550 lacks the lift levers, and pto and pto levers.
    I lost a pin off the swing tower on the hoe and unhooked it. It was useless with out the rear weight so I fount a forklift counterweight that I made a hitch like the hoe has. I plan to put liquid in the tires and make the lift for it and a Gannon style box for it.
     
  14. mitch504

    mitch504 Senior Member

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    The Case has the same type hyd PTO available
     
  15. 928G Boy

    928G Boy Senior Member

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    skip loaders are pretty popular here with asphalt crews, landscape crews, concrete crews, pretty much everyone uses them
     
  16. dirtmonkey

    dirtmonkey Senior Member

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    Ah yes, the ol' bubble in the butt:cool2 I remember as a kid i use to hold grade rod for my father befor lasers came out but as i got older i took an old brake hub from an old 57 chevy, welded a piece of pipe in center to hold the rod and a chain handle hold so i use the transit one man , just alot of walking back and forth:pointhead THANK GOD FOR LASERS!:)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 3, 2011
  17. stevel

    stevel Member

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    I've pulled alot of dirt with a Gannon box blade behind a 2 wheel drive Ford 545 industrial tractor (no loader). Don't you guys on the west coast call that a double skip or something like that? The key to making that 2 wheel drive tractor pull is weight on the tires and use of draft control of the 3 point hitch. That was where the Fords and Masseys excelled over the Case 480LL, 570MXT, JD 210LE, etc. I never will forget climbing on a new 2 wheel drive Case 480LL with a Gannon box and down pressure on the 3 point hitch. What a joke! when you down pressured the box blade the weight transferred off the back tires and you went nowhere. I could pull more dirt with my old 42 hp Massey ag tractor. The box blade is kinda a lost art around here. Everybody finish grades with skid steers now. I can still make an area look slicker with my old Ford than just about anybody can with a skid steer and I don't need a helper with a rake following me around.
     
  18. dirtmonkey

    dirtmonkey Senior Member

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    Myself, i would never have another 2wd except for sweeping streets. When we got our first 4wd i knew then that was the way to go! On the residential side especially, but thats my.02 .:)
     
  19. pwrstroke6john

    pwrstroke6john Well-Known Member

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  20. carlsharp

    carlsharp Well-Known Member

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    stevel-
    Yes they can certainly pull a lot, and nothing has come close to replacing them since they were discontinued around 2002.
    There are only two types of companies around here that still use the 545 in that configuration (2wd, no loader)- Footing trenchers and yard pullers. Both work exclusively in new construction, usually residential. The footing guys all have small, ancient bucket wheel trenchers and can turn out work at an alarming rate. Yard pullers come in after the house is built and put the final profile on the yards. I have not heard the term double skip.

    Never seen a Domor either, but they are unknown in their own state :)