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F-250 to F-450 6.4 Powerstroke anyone?
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CTDiesel
Member
There are a few companies making delete kits and tuning for DPF equipped Powerstroke, Cummins and Duramax trucks. They sell them as "off-road" use only. Most people are not using them off-road though, and the EPA pretty much knows it. Companies making the kits have supposedly received letters from the EPA warning them of the consequences of selling such products, or so I have heard.
Aftermarket tuning can either increase or decrease the frequency of regens. A "dirtier" tune is going to produce more soot and plug the DPF quicker, but there are actually some tunes that are even better than the stock tuning. If I remember correctly Banks offers very clean tuning for emissions trucks. However, I have never been one to recommend banks to someone. Decent products, but you can do better for the same price or less in most cases.
I went to a dyno day for trucks early last year and talked to an owner who had bought a delete kit and tuning for his 08 6.4 and saw his mileage go from 9mpg tops to a regular 16mpg+. This was a CC/LB F250 on a big, heavy 22.5" wheel/tire combo.
Personally I think the new emissions standards are just a bit too stringent, maybe I'm wrong. Most people I know that own 08+ DPF trucks report mileage is terrible. What is the use of having super clean trucks if we're using the fuel near or more than twice the rate of a non-DPF truck? It's just stupid, IMO.
There were legitmate problems with the 6.0, that's no secret. Many 6.0 owners actually caused some of the issues unintentionally buy driving their trucks like grandmas, babying them. It was designed to be run hard, not a grocery getter. Soot and carbon would build up and plug the egr and also cause the turbo vanes to stick and cause turbo failure, etc...It's not so much of an issue now that we have the ULSD.
After the 7.3 the Powerstroke hasn't really been what it was. I owned an early 99 F250 7.3L and it was a terrific truck. Aside from a CMP (Cam sensor) and a belt tensioner I never had an issue with it. I miss the truck really. I sold it and bought the truck I miss most, an 03 Ram/Cummins 5 speed. That truck was terrific. Driving home after purchase at about 80-85 from South Dakota to Indy I got 18.3 mpg. I regularly got 22-24+ in it, which was so much better than the 17 tops I got in the 7.3. Eventually I sunk some money into the Dodge with tuning, fuel system and a turbo upgrade and dyno'd 526hp/996lb-ft. Cost me about 4k for the added power. Unfortunately the truck was totaled over a year ago thanks to a fool who did not yield the right of way.
Anyway I would not recommend that anyone buy a DPF truck unless they enjoy getting terrible MPG's, although the Duramax has done surprisingly well in the mpg department, followed by the 6.7 Cummins.
You're better buying an older truck and spending a few extra bucks for some upgrades and get the same or even much more power than a DPF truck.
thejdman04
Senior Member
My boss had one, would get about 10 empty, 6-8 loaded with a trailer. His truck empty always had a lot of stuff in it. He ended up leaving it at the dealership and bought a chevy after the thrid set of head gaskets.
CTDiesel
Member
I forgot to add that many shops were finding that the mating surfaces for the heads were actually nowhere near as "flat" as they should be on a lot of trucks. That could be the reason your boss went through so many head gaskets. It might not have been the gaskets or the lower number of head bolts, but instead a poorly machined head. Many Ford dealerships never even took the time to look for that issue.
Is your truck completely stock? You can benefit from a really good (clean) tune, along with a better intake and exhaust system. Do some research on intakes, many of them advertise the HP gains and better flow but probably don't mention that filtration isn't a whole lot if any better than stock. Stay away from the K&N's, their filtration is terrible for diesels and I know guys who have had dusted motors and turbos from them. It's been a while since I've researched the 7.3 systems so I can't really recommend which ones are the best at the moment.
As for exhaust, I put on a 4" mandrel bent magnaflow system. It was not much louder than stock inside the cab, and sounded terrific outside.
Also you don't see the best gains from intakes and exhaust systems until you upgrade the tuning. Custom tuning is the way to go for the 7.3 and is not very expensive, not off-the-shelf junk like superchips or something.
On a side note the factory filtration system on the 6.0 is a very, very good factory unit and most of the time doesn't need upgraded unless going for a high hp truck.
Canadian_digger
Senior Member
We have a 98 Dodge 2500, regular cab, 2 wheel drive, with 24v 5.9 cummins, and 3.55 gears. It gets 22mpg:bouncegri hwy doing between 70-75mph. Any long distance driving and that’s the truck to take.
stumper120
Well-Known Member
in 95 i bought a new f350 with a 460 7.5 gas because the powerstroke was fairly new and winter starting was never a problem. that truck got 6mpg on a good day 4.11 gears. 4 mpg towing something. but whould suck up 5.0 mustangs up to 55mph . dident seem bad when gas was only $1.20
CTDiesel
Member
Winter starting shouldn't be too big a problem with a 7.3 though, provided the glow plugs and relays are good.
That 460 was no joke of an engine though! Mileage was awful but it was a powerful son of a gun.
Actually that'd be a 98.5, 98's were still 12v.
I do know many guys who have 2wd CTD's with 3.55's and some even run lower than that and get 30+!
That 460 was no joke of an engine though! Mileage was awful but it was a powerful son of a gun.
Actually that'd be a 98.5, 98's were still 12v.
I do know many guys who have 2wd CTD's with 3.55's and some even run lower than that and get 30+!
Canadian_digger
Senior Member
24mpg is possible if you really keep your foot out of it and drive around 60mph
CTDiesel
Member
Actually you have some research to do if you don't believe it's possible without shedding weight or reducing drag!! First off consider the reputation for the Cummins 5.9 for getting 20+ easily in the 2wd's and even the 4x4's (My old 03 quad cab long bed 4x4 2500 regularly saw avg 23 and often 24+, at about 7700lbs...hand calculated mpg) 30 is quite possible with a very low gear ratio and a manual trans and/or something like a Gear Vendors overdrive in something as simple as a standard cab, 2wd or even a 4x4. I know guys who have done the free spin conversion on their front ends and seen gains of 2-3 mpg also. I can imagine I might have gained at least an extra mile or two per gallon on my 03 had I done the same making it a 25+ truck. Tack on a GV OD and maybe I could have been close to 30 myself. I miss that truck more than any of my trucks I have ever hard, mainly because it made great power and ran so darn efficiently.
There are several diesel pickup magazines out these days. One of them took a mid 90's 12v 2wd dually and did some pretty basic mods and got 28 out of it with a nice light foot. I'll see if I can dig up the exact stuff that they did to it.
Ultimately you would be right that reducing drag and decreasing weight would be necessary to continue increasing mpg but it's not really the first things that have to be done to achieve such numbers, at least in a CTD.
I have no doubt in mid to high 20s, but that is a far cry from 30+. Lugging the engine like that can't be good and with that gearing the smallest head or tail wind would really effect the #s. I guess I know it possible just not practical.
It is all about speed and conditions! My excursion made 25 mpg last summer on a trip. The only catch was, slight tale wind and 60 mph. I normally drive 75-80 so 18-19mpg is normal. Seems like everyone tells the great mileage, but you have to ask the conditions.
BTW if you are looking for good info on Ford pickups, the best place is
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/index.php
There is a wealth of information on there about anything to do with Ford diesels and pickups.
BTW if you are looking for good info on Ford pickups, the best place is
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/index.php
There is a wealth of information on there about anything to do with Ford diesels and pickups.
CTDiesel
Member
Haven't been on that site too much. I prefer powerstrokenation.com. There are a lot of normal every day guys on there, all the way to the guys who have the quickest and most powerful powerstrokes in the country. There's another site called Powerstroke.org, a good site but you'll have a hard time finding the quickest and most powerful guys on that board.
How is not practical? I think 35-40 would be a far cry. These guys are not lugging their engines. They are running anywhere from 1500-1800 rpm's. They have tuned everything to be as efficient as possible, getting the coolest charge air possible, the best flow in and out of the motor and the perfect amount of fuel to eliminate the chance of an incomplete burn and smoke. Some of them even lower their trucks to help reduce the restriction from all the junk under the truck that the air catches.
There was a 7.3 powerstroke that some guy modded the heck out of and he was getting 28mpg, but he actually did a heck of a lot more stuff than a lot of the Cummins guys I know who get the same mpg's or better.
I had my doubts at first, but I've been learning for several years now about these trucks and every week someone else is raising the bar for mpg, horsepower or torque, quarter mile times, etc. I'm big into the racing part. It's cool to see some of the 5000lb+ 4x4's running mid/high 9's in the quarter mile.
How is not practical? I think 35-40 would be a far cry. These guys are not lugging their engines. They are running anywhere from 1500-1800 rpm's. They have tuned everything to be as efficient as possible, getting the coolest charge air possible, the best flow in and out of the motor and the perfect amount of fuel to eliminate the chance of an incomplete burn and smoke. Some of them even lower their trucks to help reduce the restriction from all the junk under the truck that the air catches.
There was a 7.3 powerstroke that some guy modded the heck out of and he was getting 28mpg, but he actually did a heck of a lot more stuff than a lot of the Cummins guys I know who get the same mpg's or better.
I had my doubts at first, but I've been learning for several years now about these trucks and every week someone else is raising the bar for mpg, horsepower or torque, quarter mile times, etc. I'm big into the racing part. It's cool to see some of the 5000lb+ 4x4's running mid/high 9's in the quarter mile.
From what I'ver heard from owners is that 8-9 mpg's starting off and after getting broke in around 15-16 mpgs. And getting anywhere from 7-11 pulling. The V-10 is a very good dependable engine but millage is still the same. If all your planning is a tool bed and rare towing the v-10 would be fine. I've got an 05 6.0 and the worse I've seen is 12.6 pulling 10,000# at 80 mph. Its fast, pulls good and not a problem with 128,000 miles on her. I just got back from kentucky and was getting 16.4 mpg running nearly wide a** open the whole way. A couple of times running the speed limit she jumped up to 19.1 on some trips. For the most part getting an average of 16.1 around here.As far as the 6.4 goes its going through its phases like the 6.0's. Now to get the millage up. But I'm waiting to up grade next year when the 6.7's come out and try out ford's new engine. Cummins has a good engine, but I can't seem to find myself buying a dodge. You can drop a gold bar in a pile of crap and its still going to be a pile of crap just messing with the dodge guys!!
just messing with the dodge guys!!
90plow
Senior Member
No way guys are getting anywhere the numbers your throwing out CT diesel. I have a 2006 dodge, my father has the same and we both get about 16-18 mpg daily. I would find it very hard to believe anyone is getting 30plus driving around. They just did a propane injection kit on a gmc and it was getting 38 mpg with the propane so no way could you get in the 30s on diesel alone.
CTDiesel
Member
Should I make the text larger so you can read what I have already stated more clearly? Wait, sounds like you've already got it all figured out. I guess the time I put into researching the idea when I first had my doubts turned up jack crap. I'll go back to thinking inside the box like you.