Jeckyl1920
Well-Known Member
Ok, so I've been very methodically batting around the excavator vs backhoe ideas for footing excavation, grading, and normal R&R demo purposes.
I've been going over pros and cons for months, and have some solid concepts, and some experience gaps.
What I'm aiming for is an all around technical digging machine that uses quick coupler for multiple buckets, eventually a tilt rotator, full trimble system with semi auto, and is capable of grading large areas quickly and accurately, as well as dig footings and trenches in the same fashion.
Excavator-
-pros
Stable
Quick repositioning for trenching speed
Low tail swing makes for a safer machine
Visibility due to swing of cab as well
VA boom changes visibility and dynamics
Large size range
Trimble systems specifically designed for them
-cons
Metal tracks are damaging to finished surfaces
Rubber tracks don't grip on dirt as well
Distances are slow
Short stick makes for a smaller working area
Long sticks make for less power
Typically have less available power that backhoes of similar weight?
Harder to "jump" trenches and benches
Hard to transport(over sized usually, but likely not in my size range)
Can't carry multiple buckets(maybe fabricate a rack...)
Sub topic
Wheeled excavators-
-Pros(additive)
As fast as a backhoe on the ground
Not damaging to finished surfaces
Have VA boom options
Highly versatile as can tow a trailer
Stable digging like a backhoe with stabs and blade support
-cons
Easily twice as expensive start up cost.
Hard to find in the US, so likely have to buy new
Not as stable as tracks and possibly backhoes without stabs and blade down, making repositioning speed a middle ground?
Short stick issue here as well.
Backhoe
-pros
Industry standard in USA
Stable with outriggers
Fast ground speed
Larger bucket up front makes it a combo small loader/excavator
Can carry multiple tools
Comes in side shift for digging near walls/closer to dump trucks
Longer stick with hydraulic extender
Typically more Horsepower by size
Can overcome large obstacles easier
-cons
Slowest repositioning
180 degree work area
Hard to see ground in front while excavating
Side shift is highly uncommon in USA
Trimble is not as commonly used with these?
Max out at 25k machine
Can not tow a trailer
Experience gaps-
Unsure which is more fuel efficient, similar weight class excavators or backhoes? I assume excavators as they typically have smaller engines.
Reposition time adds to length of job, meaning I am leaning toward excavator. I assume the smaller power is due to shorter stick, but the small excavator experience I had, the boom was super slow and hard to keep up with the sticks short radius. I'm unsure if this is common with all excavators, or just smaller ones, or if VA boom alleviates this issue or makes it worse.
Swing boom is an option, however, with a tiltrotator, may be an unnecessary weak point in the hoe?
How well does trimble work with backhoes vs excavators? It's hard to find any info on it for backhoes. I also am unsure about the system changing if you are in hard material and dragging the machine around, as well as if using a breaker on it will mess it up? Do you need a beater, and a fine grade trimble machine separate?
Lastly, which excavator sizes use a similar stick size to a backhoe? Meaning I can still dig with backhoe buckets, and use a larger loading and hogging bucket or large grading beam.
Opinions and experiences appreciated.
I've been going over pros and cons for months, and have some solid concepts, and some experience gaps.
What I'm aiming for is an all around technical digging machine that uses quick coupler for multiple buckets, eventually a tilt rotator, full trimble system with semi auto, and is capable of grading large areas quickly and accurately, as well as dig footings and trenches in the same fashion.
Excavator-
-pros
Stable
Quick repositioning for trenching speed
Low tail swing makes for a safer machine
Visibility due to swing of cab as well
VA boom changes visibility and dynamics
Large size range
Trimble systems specifically designed for them
-cons
Metal tracks are damaging to finished surfaces
Rubber tracks don't grip on dirt as well
Distances are slow
Short stick makes for a smaller working area
Long sticks make for less power
Typically have less available power that backhoes of similar weight?
Harder to "jump" trenches and benches
Hard to transport(over sized usually, but likely not in my size range)
Can't carry multiple buckets(maybe fabricate a rack...)
Sub topic
Wheeled excavators-
-Pros(additive)
As fast as a backhoe on the ground
Not damaging to finished surfaces
Have VA boom options
Highly versatile as can tow a trailer
Stable digging like a backhoe with stabs and blade support
-cons
Easily twice as expensive start up cost.
Hard to find in the US, so likely have to buy new
Not as stable as tracks and possibly backhoes without stabs and blade down, making repositioning speed a middle ground?
Short stick issue here as well.
Backhoe
-pros
Industry standard in USA
Stable with outriggers
Fast ground speed
Larger bucket up front makes it a combo small loader/excavator
Can carry multiple tools
Comes in side shift for digging near walls/closer to dump trucks
Longer stick with hydraulic extender
Typically more Horsepower by size
Can overcome large obstacles easier
-cons
Slowest repositioning
180 degree work area
Hard to see ground in front while excavating
Side shift is highly uncommon in USA
Trimble is not as commonly used with these?
Max out at 25k machine
Can not tow a trailer
Experience gaps-
Unsure which is more fuel efficient, similar weight class excavators or backhoes? I assume excavators as they typically have smaller engines.
Reposition time adds to length of job, meaning I am leaning toward excavator. I assume the smaller power is due to shorter stick, but the small excavator experience I had, the boom was super slow and hard to keep up with the sticks short radius. I'm unsure if this is common with all excavators, or just smaller ones, or if VA boom alleviates this issue or makes it worse.
Swing boom is an option, however, with a tiltrotator, may be an unnecessary weak point in the hoe?
How well does trimble work with backhoes vs excavators? It's hard to find any info on it for backhoes. I also am unsure about the system changing if you are in hard material and dragging the machine around, as well as if using a breaker on it will mess it up? Do you need a beater, and a fine grade trimble machine separate?
Lastly, which excavator sizes use a similar stick size to a backhoe? Meaning I can still dig with backhoe buckets, and use a larger loading and hogging bucket or large grading beam.
Opinions and experiences appreciated.