Engine ECM repair

[Randy88]

Wasn't sure where to stick this so I'm putting it here, if the moderators feel it fits better elsewhere they can move it for me.

Anyone had any experience with engine ECM's, one of my engine's is causing grief AGAIN and this time it appears to be had, or so I'm told and have figured out by attempting to troubleshoot it, its on a cummins in a truck and has been nothing but grief from day one.

Has anyone sent their ECM in to be repaired, and if so, was it worth it, where would you recommend sending it to and what did it cost, and lastly, did they actually stand behind their warranty on it?

I've been pricing ECM's from used to rebuilt to aftermarket to new and now I see mine can be sent in to be rebuilt. Anyone with ideas, thoughts or anything else, please post here.

Thanks for any replies in advance.

 

[Nige]

Do Cummins offer through their dealers something like a Reman ECM ..?
I've had nothing but bad experience of trying to repair ECM's, either first-hand or any other hand........

 

[02Dmax]

Genuine Cummins is the ONLY luck I've ever had with a Cummins ECM. What model engine is it Randy88?

 

[ohiofleet]

is it an ixs

 

[blowerman]

No advice, just support for your ire! I have 2 cummins isx 485's and they give me nothing but trouble... ECM issues, high crank case pressure, etc, etc. who's responsible for this problem? One truck is parked & the crew actually runs our 2002 T800 Kenworth with a c10 and it never has a problem

 

[partsandservice]

I would replace the engine wiring harness first. And if the ECM is in fact the problem a faulty wiring harness probably shorted it out. In my experience if the ECM powers up , about 90 percent of the time there is nothing wrong with the ECM. I have also seen an ECM fix a run ability issue only to have the problem reoccur. The problem in these cases was the connection at the ECM and the terminals connected with one new side worked temporally, or moving the harnesses to replace emc made the connects once again temporally connected. On engines with electronic injectors the wire connection can check good for continuity and still not carry load or transfer pulse width accurately across connections . An example of a recent ECM failure. Engine code something like this . Engine boast pressure sensor open or short to ground. Engine in derate condition. Boost sensor signal wire shows continuity to ground with KOEO . Unplug connector at ECM , no longer continent to ground. ECM failure. The wiring harness with the woven plastics strands will sqeeze the bundle of wires together, add some oil of fuel and the insulation on the individuals wires is softened and can make contact with the other wires in the bundle.

 

[Randy88]

Its the first year of L10 with the computer controls on them, sure wish it was one year older with a mechanical engine in it, all I've ever heard of any brand of electronic engines is they are nothing but grief and expense.

I've talked to so many locals, everyone with their own ideas and input, but the consensus seemed to be, the best you could hope for was a year tops without having to redo it again and spend the money again.

At that rate, I might as well give up and jerk the engine out, and put a remanufactured mechanical engine in the truck, in the long run it'll be a fraction of the overall cost compared to continuing to fight this problem.

 

[partsandservice]

You will be surprised how relatively inexpensive a cummins engine wiring harness is. When I Personally get to the throwing parts stage of it, I start with the least expensive parts, but thats just me.

 

[partsandservice]

Check out "strange 5.9 Cummins quirks " in the truck forum below.

 

[02Dmax]

What's the truck actually doing? I really haven't seen a whole lot of problems with those L10E's. They're barely electronic compared to today's stuff. Lol.

 

[Randy88]

The truck won't start, has nothing coming out of the ECM but if I was told correctly, we have power going into it, I just put new batteries, cables and a rebuilt starter into it, along with battery boxes and a rebuilt alternator this go around.

As for getting to the point of throwing parts at it, I was thinking we've always been at that point, I've had this truck for almost 15 years ish, maybe longer, time flies. I'm thinking we've done the computer and harness once before, maybe more that just once, I'd have to decipher the file on this truck to determine just what's been done to it and when.

I've been pricing parts and the whole shotgun approach to fixing it, basically the worst case scenario of what we'd have to stick into it, the problem comes when it exceeds the value of the truck several times over and may not fix it and get it back on the road again, and nobody will guarantee anything. The other problem is, anything electronic can't be returned if we decide to give up mid way through on the problem.

As for who's to blame, that's a good question, all brands have their own set of issues, but from where I sit, everyone's standing in line to make a buck off this stuff, its the greatest cash cow ever invented, but that's just my opinion.

 

[partsandservice]

I am not there and have no idea what you have been through with this truck, but in an effort to help. The ECM must have two sources of power to power up. Un switched and switched.

 

[lantraxco]

Is that one of those Freightliners with the hidden fuses behind the battery box deal I've heard about?

 

[partsandservice]

Not sure about the fuses, but the ECM un switched voltage is almost always drawn directly from the batteries.

 

[theironoracle]

If this were a caterpillar engine you could do the "bypass harness test". I would assume cummins has the same test available if not in the book I'm sure you could figure out how to bypass your harness to be sure it's not or is the problem...TIO

 

[Randy88]

Yes it has two power sources, both switched and unswitched, I'll have to retest them again when I have time, but I was almost positive we had power to both.

No its in a peterbilt, and those fuses are behind the dash, you pull the dash apart and they have a fuse holder bolted to the dash plate once you dig deep enough, both fuses are good, there was some confusion there should have been three out of four panel fuse holder, but there ended up being only two fused. This comes as an argument situation because I could have sworn the last go around, there was also a single fuse holder in the battery box, also the reason I'm thinking off the top of my head, the wiring has been replaced, but we can't find that invoice either.

We've been having issues with low voltage to the starter, the reason why the new cables, batteries, and the rebuilt starter, not sure which was the problem, or a combination of all three, but when we put it all together, we solved that issue, now this one came up. There have been all sorts of idea's being spit out, from hooking the wires wrong for the ECM, to accidentally shorting them on something when hooked up, to low voltage killing the computer to a bad spot in the harness that we haven't found yet, the idea of steaming it off before working on may have gotten moisture into something that shouldn't have, to a couple dozen other ideas. Basically tempers were flared and heated over the deal of it not starting so I pulled it out of the shop, and around back to let everyone cool off some before working on it again, there was some discussion of using the truck for a battering toy with a couple dozers so I put everyone in their own corner till I come up with a plan of action for it, not that it was a bad idea, but maybe not the first one I'd prefer to try.

That's about all the farther we got when we pulled it out of the shop and around back, I need to bring it back in and do some more testing, just haven't had time and/or been wondering if its worth trying again, or what options I have.

 

[lantraxco]

Not sure about the fuses, but the ECM un switched voltage is almost always drawn directly from the batteries.

Right, but there should be fuses, fusible links, or circuit breakers in those wires somewhere. Some ECM's I think you have to have ALL the power supply wires in good order or they hit the snooze button on you?

 

[Nige]

Not sure about the fuses, but the ECM un switched voltage is almost always drawn directly from the batteries.

Agreed, but surely it has to go through a fuse or circuit breaker somewhere between the battery and the ECM..?

 

[Randy88]

I've had the discussion of both pete and cummins on the search for the fuses, they both told me it depends on the harness and model of ECM, but according to the book they were both using, the only fuse in the system is in the dash, one fuse could be in the harness in the battery box, but if its not there, some had it some didn't, hence the reason for thinking we replaced the harness. I chatted with them to find out if someone cut it off the end of the cable and by the description I gave them, they told me its original and hadn't been tampered with, with as many people who have worked on or looked at this truck in the past decade or so, anything could have happened. I asked about fuses on the back of the ECM itself and they told me they put them either there or up in the dash, but not both places, no fusible links were ever in this system and to forget about looking for them.

We were discussing the exact voltage at the pins on the back of the ECM when I got sidetracked and I'll have to phone them back to ask again.

As for the snooze button, I was told its either good or not, nothing in between, but again I'm not sure they weren't trying to sell me a new ECM and the reason I asked here in the first place.

The next thing I'm not sure of is, I've been told you can fry the ECM with low voltage or a short? I'd think a short would kick out one of the fuses first, and low voltage shouldn't really hurt I wouldn't think when cranking the starter, most batteries will be down to and under 10 volts, so why would low voltage kill the ECM?? If that were the case, when you tried to start a truck on weak batteries or in the dead of winter when things have more draw, wouldn't you fry the ECM then as well?

 

[lantraxco]

I don't know for sure about frying an ECM on low voltage but I do know most of them have a low voltage cutoff programmed in, along with the fuel pressure, timing sensors and rpm sensor, if you don't have voltage, fuel pressure, rotation and a list of other things to make it happy, it just ain't gonna try to fire.