Electrician HELP..

[TVA]

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[Willie B]

Not an electrician, but I think NEC resolved this grounding-bonding confusion in 2014 edition, because there was people who was led astray by term “grounding” and thought that if they can pound some rods in to the ground and connect green wire to them - they were protecting the circuit!!!

Bonding jumper has its name because that’s what it is - you can’t trip the breaker without shorting phase conductor to transformers center tap. The reason why it’s done only at main disconnect because it is closest place to transformer and if you connect bonding to neutral anywhere else you creating parallel circuit and people get zapped just by touching fixtures and appliances bodies of which bonded.

And I agree - to have a 240v and sleep good at night run four wires!

I've studied code 50 years now. I've always been confused that NEC Rulemaking Committees never cleared up the confusion of Grounded & grounding.

For those of us in a single phase world, we live in 240 volt power supplies. Some like to eat half a sandwich at a time. Lots of load we use runs on 120 volt power. The power company transformers have a secondary winding center tapped.

If we had no concern there'd be a malfunction there would be no reason to ground this center tap. We want to limit the voltage you might receive as a shock. We ground this conductor. It serves as the return path for electrons to trip a breaker, and electrical shock to earth is limited to half the voltage provided by the transformer. In the language of NEC, the center tap is t
"the grounded conductor"

The uninformed believe this is equivalent to earth ground. They are very wrong.

Earth ground is for a different reason.

Electric shock is current flowing through a person. If any errant electrons want to flow, connecting every electrically conductive object together is BONDING. Through bonding, electricity flows through something other than persons. The term extends to where we connect it to earth, or the grounded conductor.

The language involves a lot of hair splitting, grounded, grounding, bonding are all different.

I explain bonding using the example of a cow barn. In older cow barns cows are chained at the neck while they are milked. Their necks, udders, mouths (drinking bowl) and hind feet (gutter cleaner) are all touching conductors. If there is potential, between any of these conductors, the cow gets a shock. Cow barns are wet. The water contains compounds making it more corrosive & more conductive. There will always be stray voltage.

If we connect the milk pipe, water pipe, stantion, water bowl, gutter cleaner, and floor steel reinforcing together there is no reason current should flow through a cow.

Milk buyers monitor leukocyte levels (white blood cell). Barns with a stray voltage problem are cured with proper bonding. Bonding alone have been shown to drop leukocyte levels from 1,000,000 to 80,000. There are other problems raising leukocyte, shock is only one.

 

[Tinkerer]

I would like to see the splice the jackleg buried in the yard.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Lol.. I was with him when he/I bought these Blue Gell lookin gizmos that were supposed to be for underground splices.. {3}
I didnt actually SEE HIM do it but the packaging was blowing across the yard.. Lol
I was looking at the box & theres NO WAY to get 240 to that breaker.. theres enough room for 1-240 & 1-120..
So I was looking up Main Disconnects on-line & sure enough, they now sell them w/ 4 breakers.. or 4 slots for breakers.. 2-240 or 4-120
The boxes arent expensive{60.00}, but the labor to swap all those wires is gonna be the kicker..

 

[TVA]

Is your main disconnect outside?

 

[thepumpguysc]

yes it is.. & I have a disconnect for the shop in the panel, inside.

 

[TVA]

Then it’s even easier, like you said replace the main disconnect. Although you may consider installing generator switch box while you at it, which also main disconnect and has additional circuits and breakers. But those will cost you about $300. But you will be ready for whole house generator connection ( although generator breaker is only 60 amps)

 

[thepumpguysc]

GREAT IDEA.!!!
I hadnt thought of THAT till u brought it up.. I use a suicide plug thru the dryer.. lol
& I'm as nervous as a long tail cat in a room full of rocking chairs EVERY TIME I do it..

 

[Ronsii]

Lol.. I was with him when he/I bought these Blue Gell lookin gizmos that were supposed to be for underground splices.. {3}
..

He didn't use these did he???

 

[TVA]

He didn't use these did he???
View attachment 210831

Those are not underground, those are in box in wet location. Underground must use special heat shrinks.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Similar.. but open on both ends to connect wire to each other that u heat up..

 

[TVA]

Similar.. but open on both ends to connect wire to each other that u heat up..

Looks like that was heat shrinks.

 

[Willie B]

Those are not underground, those are in box in wet location. Underground must use special heat shrinks.

Actually, there are a variety of silicone filled wire nuts rated for underground, and direct buried.
I've never used them buried, but inside a flush with ground box, it isn't unusual. Landscape lighting is a common use.

 

[TVA]

Actually, there are a variety of silicone filled wire nuts rated for underground, and direct buried.
I've never used them buried, but inside a flush with ground box, it isn't unusual. Landscape lighting is a common use.

Yes, I should have clarified about direct bury and in sealed box. They maybe rated for direct bury, not sure - but I wouldn’t like that.

 

[joe--h]

Think TPG should just go buy a 120V compressor.
And a camera.
Maybe the camera should be first.
Joe H

 

[TVA]

120v compressor will be super weak! If not gonna require big wires because it’s gonna use whole lot of amps!
I have a lathe, which is dual voltage, in 120v I was able to stop the chuck with my hands, I re wired it to 240v and now that thing kicking soft tissues of 5th landing point.

 

[Ronsii]

Those are not underground, those are in box in wet location. Underground must use special heat shrinks.

I know but I have seen landscaper(electricians) use em' for direct burial And when PG said blue that was the first thing I thought of LOL!!!

 

[thepumpguysc]

I hooked the compressor in the 240 breaker for the well pump & it fired up, filled up & shut off.. I then switched the wires back.. {just to test it out}
I was introduced to a "QUAD Breaker" from 1 of our more experienced members.. THANKS Beu..
THATS exactly what I need.. it takes a 240 feed & splits it in 2.. for different amp feeds..
I'm gonna stick w/ whats in there.. 20 amp for the well pump & 30 amp for the shop.. but instead of 120v/ 30 amp.. its gonna be 30amp 240v..

 

[TVA]

I hooked the compressor in the 240 breaker for the well pump & it fired up, filled up & shut off.. I then switched the wires back.. {just to test it out}
I was introduced to a "QUAD Breaker" from 1 of our more experienced members.. THANKS Beu..
THATS exactly what I need.. it takes a 240 feed & splits it in 2.. for different amp feeds..
I'm gonna stick w/ whats in there.. 20 amp for the well pump & 30 amp for the shop.. but instead of 120v/ 30 amp.. its gonna be 30amp 240v..

Are you gonna use the same wires that go to shop now?
As far as I understood you have only three wires going to the shop, in order to run 120v lights and equipment you gonna have to use
Bonding/ground wire as neutral.
But this way you loose protection, nothing gonna trip the breaker in case of fault to equipment body or frame. You can connect bonding to your new neutral, but I don’t think you gonna like the results! It may zap you when you touch something.

 

[TVA]

Got to run at least one more wire.