Ed's 77 Terex 72-41

[mountainguyed67]

So, what does the gov tag on the red engine say?

I haven’t got there yet, maybe today I’ll remove the stuff attached to it.

 

[mountainguyed67]

So, what does the gov tag on the red engine say?

 

[kshansen]

Guess if you have a good Detroit mechanic to help you might be best to see what he says. Would not want to tick him off for you by you saying "some guy on the internet said"

But one is the limiting speed governor and the other is a variable speed governor. I did work on many engines using one or the other but never tried replacing one type governor with the other in an application.

I know from memory an engine that needs to run at a set RPM needs the variable speed governor, I know it does sound a little counterintuitive! If I get bored tomorrow maybe I'll do some digging on the reasons for the two.

 

[Birken Vogt]

Variable speed means that whatever you set the lever at is going to mean one RPM that the governor will try to maintain.

Limiting speed means that the lever (more or less) directly controls the fuel rack and the limits are there to keep it at idle speed or prevent it from overspeeding.

I am kind of surprised that something like a loader had an LS governor, and if it was mine, I would be tempted to just run it with the VS governor if the rest of the red engine configuration is acceptable for the loader. I did not follow the discussion completely so I don't know if RPM range, horsepower setting, etc. is correct or not.

 

[mountainguyed67]

I know it does sound a little counterintuitive!

Yes, I would have assumed the other way around.

 

[kshansen]

I would be tempted to just run it with the VS governor if the rest of the red engine configuration is acceptable for the loader. I did not follow the discussion completely so I don't know if RPM range, horsepower setting, etc. is correct or not.

Agree, if for my own use and I was able to keep the governor off the original engine I would give the red engine a try as built. If for nothing else to see how it worked.

However if doing this for a "customer" I might lean towards using the governor set-up that was original to the loader. This is just because some people can get all kinds of upset if something works even a little different than they expect!

 

[56wrench]

Well, think of it this way. Limiting speed means your size 9 shoe controls the maximum speed of the engine(within the preset parameters) like in a truck or loader. A variable speed means a throttle lever controls the speed and can be set to maintain it at a constant speed required, like in a tractor, excavator, pump, etc. that may need to run at a constant speed under variable load.

 

[kshansen]

Well, think of it this way. Limiting speed means your size 9 shoe controls the maximum speed of the engine(within the preset parameters) like in a truck or loader. A variable speed means a throttle lever controls the speed and can be set to maintain it at a constant speed required, like in a tractor, excavator, pump, etc. that may need to run at a constant speed under variable load.

Yes I understand that, just wonder how the variable speed would effect the way a loader preformed. I seem to recall some loaders having a hand throttle that could be used to set the minimum engine speed. I think that was suppose to help with production as the engine would not need the second or two to get up to speed after letting off the throttle. And yes I know that that foot peddle is a governor control and NOT an actual throttle!

 

[56wrench]

It will probably work but the throttle response MAY be slower and the throttle linkage may have to be changed. DDA made so many combinations it can get confusing. The worst one i encountered had a variable low speed/limiting high speed governor with a booster spring on a fabricated bracket on the top cover. It powered an auger truck for a power company, hence the need for a variable low speed function while running the auger. It was a complicated governor to get set right

 

[Birken Vogt]

The thing about a straight LS governor was that foot position = rack position and that is not always a good thing. It is fine for driving around on the street because it is like a carburetor, more pedal = more fuel. But I remember on a fire truck if you tried to set the hand throttle to maintain say 1200 RPM because you did not want the thing low idling for hours, it was not really possible. It would either creep up to governed speed or slowly decay to idle.

Now if there was drag on it such as the fire pump, not a problem any more. But VS governors were also used on truck engines, and those that had it felt much nicer to me, I am a slow and steady sort of driver. LS makes it feel more like a race car.

It will probably work but the throttle response MAY be slower and the throttle linkage may have to be changed. DDA made so many combinations it can get confusing. The worst one i encountered had a variable low speed/limiting high speed governor with a booster spring on a fabricated bracket on the top cover. It powered an auger truck for a power company, hence the need for a variable low speed function while running the auger. It was a complicated governor to get set right

 

[mountainguyed67]

Switched these parts, the filler can’t be where it is on the red engine. That part of the engine isn’t accessible.

They’re not exactly the same behind the parts, I left them how they are.


The green engine had a breather on top of the rocker cover. There’s another place for this, but that’ll be blocked by the starter.

 

[mountainguyed67]

Guess if you have a good Detroit mechanic to help you might be best to see what he says.

He couldn’t make it last Thursday after all, said he was back in the hospital with a recurring illness. We were supposed to swap the engine that day, it didn’t happen because the guy with the forklift got squeamish. I took it apart where I did because he stood right there telling me he could do it, then when the time came he called the situation a “can of ****”. There’s no perfectly level ground, but I put it where he could come uphill on a slight incline, but be level side to side. He brought a 4,000 lb 2WD forklift, he was supposed to bring his 8,000 lb 4WD forklift. So he tells me if I get the bigger one up there it’ll handle it no problem, a few hours later he says no to that as well. I need to separate myself from this guy. The others I’ve ran it by say the 8,000 lb 4WD is overkill. So I’ll talk to the next guy that offered to do it, he ran forestry equipment for a living and has a machine he says will do it. Around here running forestry equipment means “on hills”.

 

[mountainguyed67]

Maybe two more days and it’ll be ready to go back in.



Broken engine mount, already welded back together. It warped though, will try and press it straight.


The balance weight cover didn’t have a fan mount, front mount and pulley were different. Bell housing is also different, that’s for next time. Oil pump is different too, the loader had a double pickup, water pump had one.


Used a tripod and chain hoist for lifting.

 

[Welder Dave]

You're sure putting a lot of effort into this loader. If everything fits back together good should be a good machine for you for a long time.

 

[kshansen]

I hope you swapped over the parts to have the oil system from the loader on the "new engine"!

 

[Welder Dave]

I'm guessing the original engine is made to work on slopes which explains the 2 pick up oil pump system.

 

[DMiller]

Working slopes or pushing up stockpiles where can get to 45 degrees of attack.

 

[kshansen]

I'm guessing the original engine is made to work on slopes which explains the 2 pick up oil pump system.

Or just moving around while running, where a genset or water pump usually sits nice and steady and level while running so the need for the scavenger section of the oil pump is not needed.

 

[Welder Dave]

I recall some Cats had 2 oil pumps so there would be sufficient oil when working on slopes.

 

[56wrench]

Not necessarily 2 pumps but 1 pump with another scavenge section and another suction bell in a forward sump connected with a long suction tube back to the combination pump or a similar configuration