Deere and right to repair

[92U 3406]

Convert to full mechanical

 

[Birken Vogt]

The basis is designed obsolescence, make it go away to drive the purchase of newer to new mechanisms. Fabick when took in ECM for review and eval as well updating the 6NZ parameters, noted these modules will be obsoleted in less than five years, next gen engine controls will be all that is available and nothing for repairs on old units, engines worthless without.

ECMs of all types could be easily made and sold by the aftermarket, but probably nobody wants to develop that idea for fear that a 3 letter agency will stomp all over them. But if we could get rid of that threat with confidence, a whole new world would open up.

 

[Tones]

Another aspect of this that I haven't heard talked about much is Mother Deere's access to real-time harvest data. They have full access to all the GPS guidance and yield motoring software in these new combines. They know what field you're working in and what the bushels per acre are before it even hits the truck. Sounds like an easy way to do some insider trading on the Commodities Futures markets...

This was brought up on national rural TV show (ABC Landline) and was never denied by Deere. But it's not just harvest, even sprayers can be monitored. Seems like they make a quiet buck on the side selling to 3rd parties. I've wondered if mother Cat have a similar thing going on under their maintenance monitoring system.

 

[DMiller]

Convert to full mechanical

with all the interconnected electrically operated subsystems damned near to impossible physically and unworldly costly.

 

[terex herder]

Convert to full mechanical

While I agree with the sentiment, please tell me how to do that with electronic unit injectors.

 

[KSSS]

I think the answer is you buy 7140 Magnums or 4960 Deere's, and keep rebuilding them as needed. Yes you may have to go back to driving them yourselves like the olden days prior to autosteer.

 

[92U 3406]

While I agree with the sentiment, please tell me how to do that with electronic unit injectors.

Anything's possible with enough time and $$$$. That's the kicker.

 

[Welder Dave]

There were 2 JD AG dealers that partnered here. JD skid steers can be purchased at AG dealers or industrial dealers but I don't think mini excavators because the AG dealer sells Yanmar mini ex's. I priced out some special grease JD had. It was $1.00 more at the industrial dealer. The AG and industrial dealers are literally about 7 minutes away from each other.
Manufacturers can specify certain things their dealers have to do. It could be they have to buy so much inventory or the dealership has to have a certain look. Honda required a long time M/C dealer to have to completely change the outside look of the dealership to Honda's new look. It cost the dealership close to 1mil. to change to the new look. It was ugly compared to the original look. Honda also allowed another dealership to start up in basically the same territory of a long established dealer. It's good for customers but a slap in the face to a long term award winning dealer. The new dealer didn't have to put up nearly as fancy a facade either.

 

[Birken Vogt]

While I agree with the sentiment, please tell me how to do that with electronic unit injectors.

It would take an aftermarket ECM of some type, but it could be done. Not full mech though. But it is not that hard to make some sort of computer that reads engine speed and position and turns injectors off and on. The rest is profit for the manufacturer.

It will be done at some point in the future, to get us out from the boot of big government/big mfr. How much pain is involved until society gets us to that point remains to be seen.

The old system of, only approved parts from approved mfr worked OK so long as the approved parts were somewhat affordable, and were available. But to shut down hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of equipment over a few hundred dollars of silicon and some lines of code is not going to work for the long run.

 

[Tyler d4c]

I think the answer is you buy 7140 Magnums or 4960 Deere's, and keep rebuilding them as needed. Yes you may have to go back to driving them yourselves like the olden days prior to autosteer.

Thats a fine idea till the transmission is laying from one end of the shop to the other and certain parts can't be had. Been there last year with a 4255

 

[MG84]

It would take an aftermarket ECM of some type, but it could be done. Not full mech though. But it is not that hard to make some sort of computer that reads engine speed and position and turns injectors off and on. The rest is profit for the manufacturer.

It will be done at some point in the future, to get us out from the boot of big government/big mfr. How much pain is involved until society gets us to that point remains to be seen.

The old system of, only approved parts from approved mfr worked OK so long as the approved parts were somewhat affordable, and were available. But to shut down hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of equipment over a few hundred dollars of silicon and some lines of code is not going to work for the long run.

Really aftermarket ECMs for trucks and equipment isn't that far fetched of an idea. Look at the automotive world, we can put aftermarket EFI on most common older motors, use aftermarket ECMs to control OEM EFI systems, electronically controlled transmission, tons of possibilities. I just recently got back into playing with Ford EEC-IV on Fox body Mustangs and there is a ton of both tuning software to hack the OEM ECM as well as complete, new, aftermarket ECMs. Even more so for the GM LS stuff. There just has to be enough demand for the aftermarket to put the time and money in to make it happen.

 

[Birken Vogt]

I am thinking an electronics manufacturer could make a one size fits all ECM. Sell an adapter harness to connect to the OEM connector and then whatever connector they have chosen for their ECM for Cat, Deere, Cummins, whatever. Include the usual inputs and outputs on the base ECM and then sell an extra box as part of the adapter harness perhaps, to drive piezo injectors, unit injectors, whatever, if those require strange voltage or power requirements that you would not want to include in your base box.

Then just install and upload the correct software to run the engine you have. Just work off the regular inputs and outputs, temp, position, oil pressure, CAN, and the like.

I work with industrial controls right now that include all sorts of useless features we never use on the board because it is more efficient to produce just one product for all customers.

 

[chidog]

Unavailable?
How about an Allison 1000 TCM, or, better yet, a Duramax LLY FICM. Used are going for $3k UsD, as none new are available.

And is the main reason for everything going electronic, as well as more work for dealer shops. Any other reason is based on lies.

 

[chidog]

I am thinking an electronics manufacturer could make a one size fits all ECM. Sell an adapter harness to connect to the OEM connector and then whatever connector they have chosen for their ECM for Cat, Deere, Cummins, whatever. Include the usual inputs and outputs on the base ECM and then sell an extra box as part of the adapter harness perhaps, to drive piezo injectors, unit injectors, whatever, if those require strange voltage or power requirements that you would not want to include in your base box.

Then just install and upload the correct software to run the engine you have. Just work off the regular inputs and outputs, temp, position, oil pressure, CAN, and the like.

I work with industrial controls right now that include all sorts of useless features we never use on the board because it is more efficient to produce just one product for all customers.

It won't be allowed, just like all the crack down on the tuner stuff. Read post above.

 

[John C.]

Analog control modules can likely be figured out and components on the boards replaced for repairs. Problem now is that ECMs are digitally operated which means that even if you figure out the failed components, the control programs are digital software and you still have to get the software from the manufacturer. As I said days ago when all this started, only the manufacturers of the engines can certify that any aftermarket component or software can be guaranteed to meet emissions regulations. Anyone can make a component to work. They just won't be able to get the manufacturer to take responsibility for it.

 

[Birken Vogt]

It won't be allowed, just like all the crack down on the tuner stuff. Read post above.

Analog control modules can likely be figured out and components on the boards replaced for repairs. Problem now is that ECMs are digitally operated which means that even if you figure out the failed components, the control programs are digital software and you still have to get the software from the manufacturer. As I said days ago when all this started, only the manufacturers of the engines can certify that any aftermarket component or software can be guaranteed to meet emissions regulations. Anyone can make a component to work. They just won't be able to get the manufacturer to take responsibility for it.

The only reason we can't do it now is because of threats from the government. This will not go on forever. People will get sick of it eventually.

 

[digger doug]

I am thinking an electronics manufacturer could make a one size fits all ECM. Sell an adapter harness to connect to the OEM connector and then whatever connector they have chosen for their ECM for Cat, Deere, Cummins, whatever. Include the usual inputs and outputs on the base ECM and then sell an extra box as part of the adapter harness perhaps, to drive piezo injectors, unit injectors, whatever, if those require strange voltage or power requirements that you would not want to include in your base box.

Then just install and upload the correct software to run the engine you have. Just work off the regular inputs and outputs, temp, position, oil pressure, CAN, and the like.

I work with industrial controls right now that include all sorts of useless features we never use on the board because it is more efficient to produce just one product for all customers.

Like a PLC.
But, you forgot to mention the E.P.A.

 

[John C.]

People with cry and whine about it but are already convinced it is what will have to be done. Persons like us will just find a way to work with it or work around it. How are you handling the rain right now? People losing there properties or maybe some relatives are going to be looking for somewhere to place the blame. Right now the new media is harping climate change.

 

[terex herder]

I've read California's central valley floods bad every 250 years or so. The last big flood was 1862. At least if it happens this year we will know what to blame. Those poor folks back in 1862 didn't have anything to blame.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Flood_of_1862

 

[Birken Vogt]

It has been heavy raining off and on for a week or two but this is actually quite normal. My great grandfather in the 1960s was on the water district board (very large district) and saw the need and helped get several substantial reservoirs built. Jackson Meadows and Rollins to name some. And of course there are Shasta and Oroville and Folsom etc. All the water is doing is filling the reservoirs, and if it bypasses these local reservoirs it also gets pumped south into San Luis and via canals to Southern Ca. All very normal and part of the plan.

Some places like the Russian River along the coast, and the Cosumnes River south of Elk Grove have no flood management and houses very close to the river on flat land so they get flooded. These storms have a tendency to dump a whole lot of water in one spot over a couple days, always have. So you never know what river system is going to "get it."