D3B 23Y 01245 Starting problem

[Dutchcat]

Nice, could you find some visible evidence on the solenoid?
I know that there are 2different windings in most starter solenoids, one for throwing the helix outward and one for keeping it there (hold in and pull in winding i think it was called)
Simple but great way to test the motor btw, didnt think of that before


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[asleiman]

I have the Solenoid , I just did not want to waist time at the shop. I did see some corrosion on the back end of the Sol. will open it up for more information
The starter motor looked real good the brushes are new , motor barley have discoloration from the brushes.

 

[Dutchcat]

Should be smooth sailing from now on then good luck


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[asleiman]

Not Quite yet,
I have a problem with push button switch it is a live all the time, while the disconnect switch on or off

I would like to find a good wiring diagram for the back of the panel. someone had modified it

 

[Dutchcat]

Mainpower relay or someone connected everything directly to the battery, i could have a look on sis later today. Starter relay could be a problem also,

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[asleiman]

Mainpower relay or someone connected everything directly to the battery, i could have a look on sis later today. Starter relay could be a problem also,


Dutchcat ,

I think this strictly a wiring issue someone has bypassed the disconnect switch , therefore the starter push button stay lives all the time:beerchug

 

[shopguy]

That one is a screwed up system the disconnect only disconnects the starter button the alternator is still hot maybe what is killing your batts

 

[asleiman]

Just an update ,

I was able today to reinstall the Starter. after I got it to the point of starting, The starter performed well as expected.
I also made plans for additional ground ( 2.0 wire) , bolted off the top starter bolt and connected to the frame. This machine will require every bit of 1000 or better cranking amp , my plan is to hook to 950 CC A each, that should keep from burning the Solenoid. I had few leakers that need attention. Everything looked and performed well.
I will post few pictures later on

Thank you for the support

 

[lantraxco]

:drinkup

 

[Delmer]

This machine will require every bit of 1000 or better cranking amp

Really? 950 CCA is cold cranking amps at 0 F which you shouldn't have to deal with in Alabama. One good fleet battery of around 750 CCA should be plenty to start that down to somewhere below freezing. Not that I'm arguing against the added ground cable, I'd go from the negative battery cable to the starter bolt though. If you're going with 2 batteries, the 750 amp batteries last longer than the higher amp rated ones in the same size.

 

[lantraxco]

D3B should start with a couple "D" cells, itty bitty 4 banger....

 

[Welder Dave]

I had a reconditioned 8D battery in my 931B that lasted 10 years. It cost $80 and I replaced it with another used reconditioned battery from the same place for the same $80. The guy there said to go with a lower cranking amp battery because it will have thicker plates spaced further apart and last longer than going with the highest cranking amps for the same size battery. After having a used battery last 10 years and the group 31 I also bought reconditioned still going strong in the tractor after about 12 years, I think the guy knew what he was talking about. Hard to find good service like that anymore. If you need a battery for your vehicle, they will change in right there on the spot for free. Even going to Walmart they charge you $15 or $20 to take 5 minutes to change a battery. A 3204 needs a good battery but 2 is a little overkill.

 

[asleiman]

Welder Dave ,

That is great about the battery reconditioned. I wish we have place here in Alabama that recondition the battery.

8D battery would have about 1400 CCA. when he recondition the battery what is exactly he does. The are many electronis gadget on the market now claim to recondition. I have not found one that realy works

 

[kshansen]

I may be missing something on the electrical problem but every Cat system I worked on in 45+ years had the disconnect switch in the ground (-) cable. Cable from the negative terminal of the battery went directly to one side of disconnect switch and cable from other side of switch usually straight to frame or engine block. No other wires connected at either end of the cable from the negative battery terminal. If it is wired this way there is no way anything could be hot with disconnect in the off position unless the disconnect switch itself is faulty.

 

[Welder Dave]

I don't know what they do to recondition the batteries. I think the battery I had was 1200 CCA. I noticed on my 931B that the starter wasn't always disengaging and would still keep turning the engine over when you turned the key off. When the engine starts it seems to stop. My starter was rebuilt and it didn't do this before so I don't know what's going on. It doesn't do it all the time.

 

[kshansen]

I don't know what they do to recondition the batteries. I think the battery I had was 1200 CCA. I noticed on my 931B that the starter wasn't always disengaging and would still keep turning the engine over when you turned the key off. When the engine starts it seems to stop. My starter was rebuilt and it didn't do this before so I don't know what's going on. It doesn't do it all the time.

Sounds like the contacts in the solenoid are sticking or there is something binding holding the contacts together. I would be pulling that starter and get it back to who ever rebuilt it. If that sticks in after the engine starts bad things could happen.

Just thought of something else. Have a test light handy and next time it keeps cranking with switch off check for power on the small wire to the solenoid, usually a white one. If that one is energized with switch off you have a problem in the switch and or the wiring. Either way needs to be fixed before something goes BANG!

 

[Welder Dave]

I will have to check it out.

 

[asleiman]

Here are few pictures of the D3 B
The battery case with Group 31 Battery 950 CCA
I made an extra ground cable to insure that the starter and machine are well grounded. will need to weld a nut on the side

 

[asleiman]

dont know why the first one is upside down
will try again

 

[asleiman]

as you can see the starter is way under all the hydraulic hoses and plumbing, all had to come off plus engine mount and bottom pans to get to the bolts.
Got it done and it start just taking extra steps to insure it is grounded. next will add a disconnect switch. The alternator is working it is charging about 14.0 V, may be suspect .