Cold weather operation

[John C.]

The precup motors all used the glow plugs for multiple minutes. Cat actually used a 24 volt glow plug so the long heating time didn't damage them. Newer engines like the 6.9 and 7.3 diesels in the Ford pickups used a 6 volt glow plug in a 12 volt system. It heated fast but anything over thirty seconds usually killed the plugs.

It all comes down to following the instructions in the operation and maintenance manuals for each machine.

 

[John White]

I use to have a old Allis that was crankey to start in cold weather. Bought one of these real small 1500 watt box heaters, would set it next to the injector pump, with a tarp thrown over it for about 15 minutes and would start every time. Would never use either on anything, keep a can of wd-40 for that, not nearly al likely to do any damage.

 

[joesco]

1000 watt block heaters work great for my loader, plug in all night long before a snow storm here in NH.

 

[Balzomedic]

Okay, so today I used a voltmeter and checked all the wires coming into the glow plugs. Each one read about 16v when I turned the switch on. I have a 24v system. I know they at least work a little because I have used them before with noticable results. But still I think it shouldn't be that hard to start when its not even below zero......
By the way I left them on for 2-3 min because there is a guide on the dash with the following scale:

Above 60 degrees...None
Below 60 degrees...1 minute
Below 30 degrees...2 minutes

Continue heating until engine is running smoothly.

Since it was about 10 degrees that day I figured 3 min couldn't hurt.

 

[ok dirt witcher]

one of its few good uses wd-40

I use to have a old Allis that was crankey to start in cold weather. Bought one of these real small 1500 watt box heaters, would set it next to the injector pump, with a tarp thrown over it for about 15 minutes and would start every time. Would never use either on anything, keep a can of wd-40 for that, not nearly al likely to do any damage.

I agree, I always keep a can of wd-40 around just for that reason, It's not worth a darn for a lubricant or penetrant but it'll start a diesel. We had an 85 ford diesel that got hooked on it and would not start no way shape or form until it had it's wd-40 fix..... lol If and when I use ether I,d always start turning the motor over before applying ether, seen to many use it before they hit the starter...which puts an initial load on the batteries and starter and sometimes will lock an engine plumb down. .

 

[Balzomedic]

I was at the Cat dealer yesterday getting a new transmission pump and I went ahead and found out a little info on the glow plugs. Originally it came with a metal wire lead assembly or something like that, and wires branched off to each glow plug. What is on there now is just some gerry-rigged wire with spliced on leads going to each glow plug, so that very well could be my problem. Is there a way to test the actual plug without taking it out? I just tested the wire and each plug was getting approx 16 volts.

 

[D6c10K]

I bought the wiring rail for my D6... think it was about $75

I suppose you could test them by pluging in one at a time and see what current it draws on the guage. On mine the bad ones seem to always dead-short and will pop the circuit breaker.

 

[Balzomedic]

My machine is pretty old and that meter doesn't work. I think i will replace that wiring harness anyway, I don't like shoddy electrical work.

 

[John White]

I was at the Cat dealer yesterday getting a new transmission pump and I went ahead and found out a little info on the glow plugs. Originally it came with a metal wire lead assembly or something like that, and wires branched off to each glow plug. What is on there now is just some gerry-rigged wire with spliced on leads going to each glow plug, so that very well could be my problem. Is there a way to test the actual plug without taking it out? I just tested the wire and each plug was getting approx 16 volts.

Here is one way I have use to help isolate bad glo plugs. I have one of these cheap hand help gun type info-red tempature guns that you can buy at Harbor freight for around $30. I take a reading at each glow plug before cranking and take another one just after you let off the key or switch to turn the glow plug on. Should get a temp. differance if it is working. Of course the only real way is to disconnect it and check for a amperage draw.

 

[Balzomedic]

When you say disconnect it and check for amperage draw, im guessing you mean by reading the guage, unless there is another way. My guage is broken so I will probably try that heat gun.

 

[RTSmith]

Balzomedic- As D6c says, mine have always shown a dead short. On my Fords, I can take a 12V test light connected to batt pos. Touch the glow plug connection, and the light will light up on the dead shorted ones. You must isolate it from the wiring before you do this, or any short will cause a light.

 

[tctractors]

The Best Way

This heater plug thing needs sorting in CAT Style, the best and most sensible way of sorting it is by removing all 6 Glow plugs, then wire them to a battery charger set on 24v at the lowest setting, you can use a 12 volt charger it just takes a bit longer, with a live to the top and earth to the body, the glow plug will soon warm up, all you need to see is the tip smoking a bit you dont need to get them glowing like chunks of Coal, as I have already said on the tractor Ampmeter you should see a 30 amp drop when all plugs are working correctly, failed plugs go open circuit only, the test light Will Not light,this is a very simple task to repair, dont forget 5 amps per plug "draw"or discharge, oh and CAT 3406 motors are direct injection, not fitted with glow plugs.
Dont use a set of Batterys to test the plugs as you will ether hurt yourself or start a Fire???

get it done tctractors

ps test one plug at a time.

 

[D6B_dude]

You should be able to use a ohmmeter to measure the resistance in each plug.

http://www.doctronics.co.uk/meter.htm

Mvh
Joern

 

[Balzomedic]

Thanks for the explanations guys, Im learning alot about this machine lately. I'll test them with an ohmmeter and figure out a way to test them 24 volts. Hopefully get back in the dirt soon.

 

[Willis Bushogin]

cold wx dump trucks

I have a D6C with a D333 engine. When it gets real cold outside it sure has a hard time starting. Turn on the glow plugs for 3 minutes and use some ether and after several attempts it finally starts but runs real rough for a while. Don't know whether its my glow plugs or whether I should get a block heater. My thinking is it can't be good for the engine to run cold and rough like that, but a cat mechanic I met told me he's never seen a block heater on one here in Oklahoma. So my first question is what does everyone think? Should I find a way somehow to warm the engine or should i suspect that my glow plugs are bad since it starts great in cold weather? My second question is where would I find a block heater if that is the solution?

I guess Ill piggy back on this thread.
Im in eastern NC and for the most part, it doesnt get extremely hard cold here, so we are not used to putting up with the frozen air and brake lines. I just wondered what everyone in the cold climates do to prevent this. The biggest issues I am having is the lift axle lines freeze up at night. I do drain all the water out of the tanks and the air dryer seems to be working. I did disconnect the line going to the air tanks and put some air brake antifreeze in them, I guess Ill find out in the AM, if it helps
Thanks for any help

 

[bill5362]

Willis, not to insult you but have you tried to add some brake line antifreeze, we change our cartridge filter on the air dryer every year going into the fall. You might want to find the valve that controls the lift axle and check to see if the screen on the exhaust ports has some debris in the screen. Hope this helps.

 

[Willis Bushogin]

freezing

Willis, not to insult you but have you tried to add some brake line antifreeze, we change our cartridge filter on the air dryer every year going into the fall. You might want to find the valve that controls the lift axle and check to see if the screen on the exhaust ports has some debris in the screen. Hope this helps.

I thought I had wrote i put some of this in the air tanks (maybe I didnt) I guess the problem is the lines get water in them and overnight the 20 degree wx, freezes them up. Yes I know, 20 degrees is warm to some of you guys LOL
Where and how did you add the brake antifreeze? How much?
Thanks

 

[bill5362]

Well I would fine a line after the air dryer and loosen to add some anti freeze. Don't for get to check the valve and the exhaust to make sure it doesn't have water setting there and freezing.

 

[RonG]

It is a big help to drain your airtanks every day I have found.That means to open the petcocks and leave them open overnight,not just bleeding off the moisture.
The trailer has its own tank that needs to be drained too because it will not drain back into the system once charged.The petcocks will thaw out after the air starts passing through them if they are froze but usually the compressors pass enough oil to keep them lubricated.If you happen to miss a day the system will accumulate moisture and it sometimes takes a few days to get it dried out again.
I have observed these things by being the only driver of a vehicle in a fleet populated with other drivers with less discipline about proper maintainance of their brake system and/or having some other driver on my assigned truck for whatever reason.I did not always drain the trailer tanks daily but if you start having problems with brake lockups you know where to look.Ron G

 

[Balzomedic]

Alright, took all the glow plugs out and tested them 1 at a time. I just took the wire off of all the plugs, took the plug out, hooked it back up to the wire, (I tested each plug on the same 1st wire) and grounded the body of the plug. Then I just turned the switch and watched it smoke. Seemed to me it worked pretty good. So the plan now is to get that new wire rail and 1 new plug and hope it starts better.