Class A truck-trailer combo

[snonut12]

How big of a difference is it between the testing/licensing requirement of a truck-trailer and tractor-trailer? If I am understanding correctly, the Class A truck-trailer combo would allow me to pull a 10,001+ lbs. GVWR trailer with a pickup, dump, bucket truck, etc. as long as it is not the tractor that is pulling it?

There are a couple potential restrictions for truck-trailer combo which is as shown in NYS CDL manual:

- Truck cannot exceed 26,000 lbs. GVWR.

I assume that mean if I take a test with a truck that doesn't exceed that limit, then I would get this restriction on my licesne. That would mean I cannot drive a vehicle that would require Class B CDL, correct?

- Truck cannot exceed 18,000 lbs. GVWR

I am not sure what this restriction does, because I thought that a vehicle with GVWR over 26,000 lbs will require CDL? (No, we're not talking anything about carrying passengers)

 

[fordhipo]

- Truck cannot exceed 26,000 lbs. GVWR.

I belive this means you would have an "A" license but you could not pull with an "A" truck (26,001 +). You could pull a trailer with a gvwr of over 10,000 but it with have to be with a "B" truck (up to 26,000)

- Truck cannot exceed 18,000 lbs. GVWR

I would think this is for pick-ups, where you could tow a 10,000 + trailer with a pick-up. most likely landscapers

 

[nedly05]

I was always under the impression that if you went and got your class A on a truck/trailer that it was called a class A restricted. If you had a 33 GVW truck, a 20 ton trailer and they both had air brakes and you took your test on that then you would be able to drive anything pretty much anything provided it was not a tractor trailer. There are different classes of class A restricted liscenes, eg: air brakes. Just give the DMV a call, I always found that they were pretty knowledgable about the CDL stuff, where exactly are you in upstate NY??

 

[snonut12]

nedly05, you are correct. It was my misunderstanding. I have been doing some researching and when I read something about this truck-trailer combo thing, so then I posted about it. But later on I continue researching in greater depth and guess what, I found out something that alot of us probably did not know about. I just learned that at least here in NY I can tow a trailer with GVWR greater than 10,000 lbs. as long as I don't exceed the GCWR of 26,000 lbs. So CDL is not required in that case. It has been thought and mis-understood by alot of people that CDL is required for towing any trailer with GVWR of over 10,000 lbs. which turned out to be incorrect. However in some other states it may be possible that CDL is required in smaller scale, so any of you better check it out first.

Here is the link for proof, note that it is most current version (Jan. 2006).

http://www.nysdmv.com/forms/mv500c.pdf

(I updated my location - thanks)

 

[nedly05]

snonut,
the 26,000 GCW law is sort of dumb on NYS part. the fact that as long as you stay under the 26 mark you're legal. What I see from this is guys towing bigger trailers with smaller trucks, which is not entirely safe, and it ends up effecting everyone. I know for a fact that DOT will work you over for it too! (saw it happen at a checkpoint, thankfully it wasn't me:bouncegri )

 

[snonut12]

So as long as I am within my truck rated GCWR, then DOT cannot do anything with me, correct?

Is there any requirement for NYDOT or USDOT number though?

 

[nedly05]

As long as you do not exceed your trucks towing capabilities that are set by the manufacturer, and you are DOT compliant you should be OK. Make sure that you have safety chains that are adequate for the trailer, trailer brakes, a brakeaway switch and make sure all of your lights are working. Depending on what sort of a hitch you have (ball, pintle) make sure that is heavy enough to be hauling the load that you'll be putting on it.

About the USDOT #:
I was under the impression that as of July 6th 2005 all motor carriers wil a GVW over 17999 had to have their #'s and wear them on the doors of the vehicle so as to be visible from 50 feet away when the truck was not moving. Motor carriers 17999 and less had till July 6th 2006. I've also heard that anything with a commercial plate, doing business (this includes plowing) would need to have their truck lettered with a USDOT #. The USDOT website is www.safersys.org and NYSDMV website http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/ you should be able to obtain all you need to know from those two Good Luck!!

 

[woberlin]

I believe that you only need a USDOT # if you are engaged in interstate trucking. If you only operate within the state that your registered in, then you must meet their DOT requirements.

 

[nedly05]

When you file with USDOT they will ask you if you are going to be working "interstate" (going state to state) or "intrastate" staying within your state. if you are applying for "intrastate" then you display your # as
USDOT-XXXXXXNY where as "interstate" would be USDOT-XXXXXX. Regardless of where you will be going you still need to fill out a MCS-150 form which can be done a www.safersys.org. Keep in mind what your GVW is and whether or not you will be a private carrier (moving your own goods) or a For-hire carrier (carrying other peoples goods).

 

[Jeff D.]

This may be slightly off topic,but may be worth mentioning,

I had a skid steer trailer,which had surge(tongue actuated hydraulic)brakes.The trailer was licensed for 9000lbs.I was legal pulling the trailer behind my pick-up,but the weigh station informed me it was not legal to pull behind my dump truck(34,000lbs),due to the surge brakes.They said that it needed to pass a State Patrol inspection to be utilized as a commercial trailer,and that mine would not with the surge brakes.

I was either supose to convert it to electric brakes,or electric over hydraulic brakes,(or air,but that would hardly be feasible),in order for it to pass the State Patrol inspection,and I needed to have it inspected annually,similiar to a truck inspection,and have a sticker affixed to it that proved it passed.

I was not ticketed,nor required to prove that I made the changes,but rather informed that I would have problems in the future,and could have it put "out of service" if I didn't make the changes,and was stopped with the trailer behind my dump truck.

That may vary from state to state,but is something else to keep in mind.

 

[snonut12]

Well I looked up the SAFER website and here is what I found:

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.asp?section=390.21

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regu...mcsrruletext.asp?section=390.5#49CFR390.5_cmv

In the second link, it states that any vehicle with GVWR or GCWR of over 10,000 lbs. is defined as CMV. So I guess that all those big dooley pickup must have DOT # before crossing the state line? And if a SUV or typical pickup (under 10K GVWR) is towing a trailer, and the GCWR is over 10,000 lbs. then it must have DOT # as well before going across a state.

Make no sense to me, or else the DOT would have pull over every vehicle mentioned above and redtag them. What is the point of having DOT # anyway?

 

[Jeff D.]

It's very hard to get any definative answers isn't it?

I really believe that even the officers don't know all the answers when I've asked similiar questions,off the tops off their heads,and when they dig into it,they even are confused by the wording sometimes.

I've been lucky,and have always had understanding officers when I've been stopped.I've used the "play dump" approach,and it doesn't take too much playing sometimes!!But that doesn't always work,they have bad days too,and then you'll get a ticket,whether you understand it or not.

I was told by the scalehouse,you need a DOT# if your vehicle has a gross weight over 26,000lbs,or if your combined gross weight is over 26,000lbs.I don't know if that's correct,but that's how they interpretted it too me.

They also told me I wouldn't need to display my DOT# unless I crossed a state line,but I had to have the # avail,if I was stopped.

Also,both truck and trailer was supose to have a yearly inspection,with stickers,and a copy of the inspection in the vehicle at all times.(If the above requirement for a DOT# applied)

There's also the Heavy Highway Use Tax (Fed. form 2290),when the GCWR exceeds a set amount(55,000lbs) Your supose to carry a copy of that,proving it was paid,if your stopped.That's whether your carrying that much or not.A 34,000lbs GVWR truck & 25,000 GTWR trailer combo,even if unladen,would be required to have that.

Lot's-o-fun trying to stay compliant,isn't it??

 

[cat320]

I think they just make it too confusing. It should be like this to avoid it

1. class A trator trailer/semi truck

2. class B anytruck weight and a trailer gvw up to and including 10 ton but not a semi truck combo.(so this would be for contractors dump backhoe combo)

3. any thing up to 26K and trailer weight of 12Kgvw

for all the states . does that sound realistic ? easy to understand and not alot of B/Sing.

:spongebob I'm ready I'm ready for a change

 

[nedly05]

CAT320
I agree. they should have a standardized set of rules, and classes for everyone. State and Federal. The way you listed it is straight forward , and its not confusing. The officers would even be able to get it !!( I think)

 

[Jeff D.]

I believe an overall simplification is in order too!!But one area I don't see addressed in the laws(but may make it MORE complex),I believe should be is:

The differences in safe towing between plate/kingpin(semi & 5th wheel)including gooseneck,and all bumper pull.

I think the laws don't differentiate enough the safety differences between them.GCVW's are often all grouped together,but in actuallity the difference in safety is night and day when towing heavy trailers/loads.

A dump truck towing a tag-a-long is one thing.They are safe,mostly in part to the size of the tow vehicle.

I feel a 1 ton pick-up can tow ALOT of weight safely with a gooseneck,and proper brakes.Well in excess of the "10,000lbs" limit for the commercial license.I think the requirement for a CDL is premature under those conditions.

But a 9000lbs bumper trailer,pulled by a 1/2 ton pick-up,that may not be overweight,on axles or tongue weight(and requires no CDL)is certainly much more dangerous to everyone on the road,than the 1ton pick-up with the 25k gooseneck trailer(does require a CDL):spaz

They can be safely pulled,but more consideration to how it's loaded,and knowledge of what to expect is needed,before the thing starts to whip back and forth at 60mph,cuz it only had 3lbs tongue weight.

I know I feel safer driving a 40ton semi,over my 3/4 ton pick-up w/bumper hitch trailer & Bobcat behind,at highway speeds,especially if the weathers poor!!

If the laws are about safety,then those differences should be considered,when regarding the CDL licenses,IMHO.
(I'm just not sure how,though)

 

[Jeff D.]

I thought about it,how about this:

3 classes of license.No more"Commercial",it shouldn't make a difference if your pulling a 5th wheel camper,or a dozer,whatever.Safety should be for everyone on the road.Everyone could test for air brakes before getting a license(it's not that complicated to understand)

Class 3:Any drive vehicle up to 25,000lbs GVWR,any bumper hitch trailer/pintle up to 10,000lbs GVWR,any 5th/goose up to 25,000lbs GVWR.(road test can be taken in a car,no trailer required)

Class 2:Any drive vehicle over 25,000lbs GVWR,same trailer restrictions as Class 3.
(road test must be taken in a vehicle over 25,000lbs GVWR,no trailer required)

Class 1:Any GVWR drive vehicle and/or any GVWR trailer.
(road test must be taken in a vehicle over 25,000lbs GVWR w/trailer in excess of Class 2-3 restriction)

I got my CDL in 91' when they were just changing over to the new CDL system.I remember they said it would make all the states the same.Was I under the wrong impression,and they're different from state to state still?

I know the laws pertaining to the vehicle licenses,DOT#'s,Authority,etc. vary depending on the state,and that's where I have my real beef(the confusion with that)but I thought the Drivers Licenses were all the same now??

 

[Steve Frazier]

That CDL thing turned out to be just a scam to generate revenue! I had had my chauffeur's license for 10 years when they came out with the CDL and the selling point was it would make the rules the same between states as mentioned. They also told us it would make the job more respectful, it would weed out the bad drivers and we'd be at a premium. Didn't work out that way.

The fees for the license doubled and the test was open book here in NY, so if you failed it it was your own fault or you were just plain stupid. It was just a scam to raise revenue.

 

[Jeff D.]

Yup,that may very well be Steve.

I've a Haz. Mat. endorsement now,but I may let it go,come time for renewal.I've heard that there's now fingerprinting,and an extensive background check,plus a hefty fee for renewal.($300.00 for haz. mat. alone)

I rarely use it,and I don't feel like going through all that,just to have them put me in a database with all the criminals.(but maybe I'm there already)

 

[cat320]

That is the big racket with the gov. just so they can line there pockets.

After the huricain in new orleans and the 9/11 attach it makes you wounder about them do they really know what there doing? They know how to tax us well thou.