DirtCrawler
Well-Known Member
Whats 'S.O.S Taken' mean in regards to a cat skid steer.
Thanks
Thanks
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Cat question
- Thread starter DirtCrawler
- Start date
bobcan
Well-Known Member
I believe it likely refers to 'Scheduled Oil Sampling' _ but not sure where you are getting this 'message', if you are _
** or is it a NOTE somewhere left by the person who TOOK such a Sample, perhaps..??
** or is it a NOTE somewhere left by the person who TOOK such a Sample, perhaps..??
Nige
Senior Member
If it's written on a fluid compartment like a hydraulic tank then and has a date alongside it then it will be the date an oil sample was taken from that compartment.
And if that oil sample was sent to cat, SOS is their "brand", and the serial number was filled in, then Cat will have the results.
And I believe they will include them on the results when you sample in the future? The samples are cheap and easy, buy the bottles with the testing and postage prepaid at the cat dealer.
And I believe they will include them on the results when you sample in the future? The samples are cheap and easy, buy the bottles with the testing and postage prepaid at the cat dealer.
DirtCrawler
Well-Known Member
Found the message when looking at some used listings for equipment.
Sometimes the listing shows this in the inspection information and just says 'yes' or 'no'
Like such - http://www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=11359463
So the S.O.S.fluid sample is for engine oil or hydraulic oil?
and why does sampling need done?
Sometimes the listing shows this in the inspection information and just says 'yes' or 'no'
Like such - http://www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=11359463
So the S.O.S.fluid sample is for engine oil or hydraulic oil?
and why does sampling need done?
It can be done on any oil. It does not "need" to be done, but is used in preventive maintenance to monitor component wear and assess the likelihood of potential failures. It also can provide some confidence in the purchase of used equipment.
Nige
Senior Member
Oil analysis can be done on any oil, engine transmission, hydraulic, final drives, etc, etc. the idea is to monitor long-term trends in oil condition, because as components wear the quantity of debris in the oil produced by that wear will increase.
This link gives you an idea of the benefits of doing oil analysis. http://www.tandeltasystems.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Tan-Delta-Benefit-Analysis-2915.pdf
DirtCrawler
Well-Known Member
So if a unit has low hours on it then this its not really an issue if the SOS was done or not?
Nige
Senior Member
A rather short-sighted viewpoint IMHO. Failures can occur any time, not just at higher hours. Personally I wouldn't consider a used machine unless it had a full service history including oil sampling.
DirtCrawler
Well-Known Member
I know... I was thinking the same after I posted.
So the SOS is something the dealer does when its in for service automatically. or just done if request by the owner?
and what determines which oil gets tested when.
durallymax
Senior Member
Cat has been one of the biggest proponents of fluid analysis for the longest time. In addition to monitoring potential wear/contamination, they also want you to change the fluids based on the actual conditions. They do not like to simply say change at "x" amount of time. It's a good thing actually because it's what you should be doing anyways, changing filters and fluids based on their condition for your specific application and the products you use. When an OEM makes a recommendation for an interval they have to be fairly conservative on the number. Instead Cat recommends the intervals you should take a sample and then change based on the results of the samples. It saves you a lot of time and money while providing you info on problems that may be developing before they turn catastrophic. It can also show you if the filters or fluid you may be using are doing an adequate job or if you need to consider a different product.
The savings from fluid analysis can be pretty big if you have a large fleet. Off the top of my head Cat recommends 3000hrs on the Hydo in the SSLs without SOS but they strongly recommend SOS and say you can expect over 6,000hrs when using SOS to monitor the fluid.
Our dealer has gone to setting up CSAs (customer support agreements) with most of the new SSL/CTL sales. All of the new machines automatically get product link, and when they see one is due for a service they send out the CSA kit which includes the SOS sampling kits, and any filters that may be needed. Sample bottles are all prepaid/labeled. Pretty easy process.
A machine with an SOS history can have a higher resale value.
Outside of the Cat equipment, I use Fluid Analysis on all of our other equipment as well. We don't have a ton of equipment compared to some but I remember figuring out the annual savings on just engine oil were over $10,000.
I think I pay around $12 for the samples I use for everything else.
A lot of OEMs are pushing fluid analysis. Larger more expensive machines even have on board analysis systems. Even a lot of the lube manufacturers are pushing it, which seems counterproductive for them since they may sell less product but many of them want people to get into the habit of it so they can see how product "x" stacks up against product "b" and how much money can be saved by using their product. Without fluid analysis it's kind of hard to really compare products and their performance.
Some brands of lubricants also offer warranties/guarantees that are much easier to get them to honor if you have a fluid analysis history.
The savings from fluid analysis can be pretty big if you have a large fleet. Off the top of my head Cat recommends 3000hrs on the Hydo in the SSLs without SOS but they strongly recommend SOS and say you can expect over 6,000hrs when using SOS to monitor the fluid.
Our dealer has gone to setting up CSAs (customer support agreements) with most of the new SSL/CTL sales. All of the new machines automatically get product link, and when they see one is due for a service they send out the CSA kit which includes the SOS sampling kits, and any filters that may be needed. Sample bottles are all prepaid/labeled. Pretty easy process.
A machine with an SOS history can have a higher resale value.
Outside of the Cat equipment, I use Fluid Analysis on all of our other equipment as well. We don't have a ton of equipment compared to some but I remember figuring out the annual savings on just engine oil were over $10,000.
I think I pay around $12 for the samples I use for everything else.
A lot of OEMs are pushing fluid analysis. Larger more expensive machines even have on board analysis systems. Even a lot of the lube manufacturers are pushing it, which seems counterproductive for them since they may sell less product but many of them want people to get into the habit of it so they can see how product "x" stacks up against product "b" and how much money can be saved by using their product. Without fluid analysis it's kind of hard to really compare products and their performance.
Some brands of lubricants also offer warranties/guarantees that are much easier to get them to honor if you have a fluid analysis history.
John C.
Senior Member
Oil sampling should be considered like an insurance policy. You pay your money over time to reduce the risk of unscheduled down time and unexpected expenses. When run as a program across a fleet it is very cost effective and prudent to do. Generally samples are taken at specified times such as hourly intervals or just before fluids are replaced. Dealers do sampling generally because the manufactures require it to maintain a warranty.
The general perception of oil sampling though it that it is used as a troubleshooting tool. Got a vibration in the engine, take an oil sample. Leaking final drive, take an oil sample. Hard shifting power shift transmission, take an oil sample. Noisy hydraulic pumps, take an oil sample. Looking to buy a used machine, take oil samples. In reality it is rare that a single sample will provide the information necessary to make a cost effective decision. A single sample does not provide the context nor provide the progression of wear or possible failure. What generally happens is that a sample is taken and sent to the lab where they take a day or more to return results. In the mean time the machine is down or worse, continues to be operated. You may have wasted money and time waiting for results that provide little usable information.
The general perception of oil sampling though it that it is used as a troubleshooting tool. Got a vibration in the engine, take an oil sample. Leaking final drive, take an oil sample. Hard shifting power shift transmission, take an oil sample. Noisy hydraulic pumps, take an oil sample. Looking to buy a used machine, take oil samples. In reality it is rare that a single sample will provide the information necessary to make a cost effective decision. A single sample does not provide the context nor provide the progression of wear or possible failure. What generally happens is that a sample is taken and sent to the lab where they take a day or more to return results. In the mean time the machine is down or worse, continues to be operated. You may have wasted money and time waiting for results that provide little usable information.
durallymax
Senior Member
My post got a bit off track on your initial question.
The SOS intervals are predetermined for each fluid on the machine. You follow those intervals for testing unless the lab tells you they want a sample at a different interval.
Samples can be taken by the owner or dealer. The dealer doesn't automatically do it anytime they work on the machine. A customer can request to have it done, a dealer may request that a customer takes one as well. Just depends on the situation.
The SOS intervals are predetermined for each fluid on the machine. You follow those intervals for testing unless the lab tells you they want a sample at a different interval.
Samples can be taken by the owner or dealer. The dealer doesn't automatically do it anytime they work on the machine. A customer can request to have it done, a dealer may request that a customer takes one as well. Just depends on the situation.
durallymax
Senior Member
John C makes another very good point. Fluid analysis is about monitoring the machine, not to provide an instant answer to a possible failure. If the sample shows a high enough level of some sort of contamination then the part is close to being ruined anyways.
Single samples can show alarming levels of some things but without a history to track the progression, you can't draw a conclusion from the analysis alone. It takes awhile to start showing trends. Some engines will show a huge level of copper in the oil and it's simply from the oil cooler leaching, no reason to tear the engine apart. Continuous monitoring will show this. You may start to see an elevated level of fuel in the oil and be able to catch a bad injector ahead of time. You generally won't find a catastrophic failure in time unless you are lucky but you can track normal wear and tear and be prepared for the timeline of overhauls and such.
It is not a cure all, it is not a definitive answer. It's kind of like a blood sample for a doctor, it may show them certain levels of things but not why those levels are elevated and without a trend the doctor can't make a prognosis on the blood test alone (for most things at least) . It's just a single tool that can be useful if you use it right. It's biggest advantage though is being able to change fluids when they actually need to be changed which easily pays for the analysis. It also increases resale.
Single samples can show alarming levels of some things but without a history to track the progression, you can't draw a conclusion from the analysis alone. It takes awhile to start showing trends. Some engines will show a huge level of copper in the oil and it's simply from the oil cooler leaching, no reason to tear the engine apart. Continuous monitoring will show this. You may start to see an elevated level of fuel in the oil and be able to catch a bad injector ahead of time. You generally won't find a catastrophic failure in time unless you are lucky but you can track normal wear and tear and be prepared for the timeline of overhauls and such.
It is not a cure all, it is not a definitive answer. It's kind of like a blood sample for a doctor, it may show them certain levels of things but not why those levels are elevated and without a trend the doctor can't make a prognosis on the blood test alone (for most things at least) . It's just a single tool that can be useful if you use it right. It's biggest advantage though is being able to change fluids when they actually need to be changed which easily pays for the analysis. It also increases resale.
DirtCrawler
Well-Known Member
So if you guys were gonna go look at a machine and it was in another state.
How exactly would you handle that? I cant take oil samples send them in and return in a few days.
and what things would you look for, or check out, when checking out the machine?
How exactly would you handle that? I cant take oil samples send them in and return in a few days.
and what things would you look for, or check out, when checking out the machine?
Roddd
Active Member
I'm new to purchasing equipment. The local Cat dealership can send out one of their technicians and perform a 2 hour inspection of the unit and send you quite a few pictures. They can also take an oil sample and have it analyzed. I plan on having them do this for my backhoe purchase. Call the dealer in that area to set something up.
DirtCrawler
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the Info Roddd, and Im assuming they just charge their normal service rate for this service plus whatever for the oil samples?
Roddd
Active Member
Yes sir. What I was quoted in San Diego, CA was $80/hour. That includes their drive time in a service truck. In my opinion, it's money well spent.
DirtCrawler
Well-Known Member
Was the Cat dealer you used for the inspection the same Cat dealer that serviced/sold the machine to the individual of the piece of equipment your looking at.?
Roddd
Active Member
No. And to clarify, I haven't had this done yet. I just spoke to the Cat dealer regarding it. From what they explained, they'll look at any piece of Cat equipment, regardless of who the original seller is. They can get the service history from the PIN and contact the dealer that performed the service to see what exactly was done to the machine. I plan on using them in the weeks to come. It'll take money from my down payment fund, but the peace of mind to me, is worth it. I'll keep you posted.