Cat it28 dbt00513 transmission no fwd rev

[Ben Weller]

Hi all, hope someone can help! We have a cat it28, with no forward or reverse. It was dropping in and out of gear intermittently before the fuse for the tranny popped. It is making pressure, has been serviced recently, coils are at correct resistance, have disconnected the neutraliser switch and the auto shift switch next to it. Also disconnected the switch on the brake pedal. The temperature sender in the tranny had the three wires connected to it rubbing on a hydraulic hose adjacent to it. The black wire was frayed and has been rejoined. The only gear shift is the one on the steering console. The joystick control appears to have been disconnected prior to our ownership. Was running and changing gears fine with no overheating. Fed and rev is displayed on steering console, but won’t engage. I have been told that if one of the sensors is cactus it will cancel out all the gears? We are on a shoe string budget at the moment, so any “emergency” repairs to get it mobile would be appreciated! thanks

 

[Nige]

See if you have any Diagnostic Codes. This can be done via the Monitor System using the attached procedure.
Report back with what you find.
I sent you a PM with the Electrical Schematic. You're probably going to need it.

 

[John C.]

The machine is a 2003 IT28G. I don't recall it having the diagnostics ability.

 

[Ben Weller]

Nige, once again Thankyou! I hope this helps. Codes in pic and reply below.

 

[Ben Weller]

081 0247 09
081 0590 02
081 0590 09
081 1251 00
081 1251 01
081 1251 09
081 0811 09
081 0041 04
081 0426 03
081 0444 05
081 0672 02
081 0675 02
A081 0177 03
081 0177 04
081 0368 03
081 1402 05
081 1403 05
081 1404 05
081 1405 05
081 1405 06
036 0247 09
036 0174 02
036 0342 02
036 0110 03
036 1684 14
036 1684 10
036 1684 11
Please not that the transmission oil temperature sensor was removed at the time these codes were taken. Thankyou

 

[Ben Weller]

The machine is a 2003 IT28G. I don't recall it having the diagnostics ability.

It does cobber, took a bit to get them up but it worked. When turning key on and off within 10 seconds, the audible alarm sounds on the third, a few seconds later it starts running through the codes.

 

[Ben Weller]

It does cobber, took a bit to get them up but it worked. When turning key on and off within 10 seconds, the audible alarm sounds on the third, a few seconds later it starts running through the codes.

*3 times* within ten seconds

 

[Nige]

Ben,
Did you notice a digital letter "A" coming and going on the Monitor panel in the area of the arrow #9 when the list was scrolling through.?
That A would indicate an Active Diagnostic Code as opposed to a Logged Code which means it was there once but is not there now.
Meantime I'll work on that list of Codes you posted above.

 

[Nige]

List of Codes -
All "081" prefix Codes are registered in the Power Train ECM.

081 0247 09 - machine ECM stops receiving information on the CAN data link.
081 0590 02 -
081 0590 09 - engine ECM is not sending parameters to the machine ECM at the proper rate
081 1251 00 - the frequency of the alternator R terminal is above 2000 Hz.
081 1251 01 - the frequency of the alternator R terminal is below 10 Hz
081 1251 09 - the signal from the alternator R terminal is abnormal.
081 0811 09 - the machine ECM does not receive expected information from the dash panel cluster for a period of more than five seconds
081 0041 04 - the voltage of the sensor circuit power supply for the transmission oil temp sensor is below normal.
081 0426 03 - the voltage of the sensor circuit power supply for the brake oil pressure sensor is above normal
081 0444 05 - starter motor relay current of the relay is below normal
081 0672 02 - TC output speed sensor signal frequency or signal pulse width not within expected range
081 0675 02 - #2 transmission intermediate speed sensor signal frequency or signal pulse width is not within the expected range
081 0177 03 - trans oil temp sensor, voltage of the circuit for the sensor above normal
081 0177 04 - trans oil temp sensor, voltage of the circuit for the sensor below normal
081 0368 03 - Transmission and Variable Speed Control swithc. The switch is connected to three inputs of the ECM. Two contacts are open and the other contact is grounded at any time during proper operation. This FMI 03 means that the ECM has determined that all of the contacts are open circuit.
081 1402 05 - Fwd High (Clutch 2) solenoid circuit current below normal
081 1403 05 - Rev (Clutch 3) solenoid circuit current below normal
081 1404 05 - 2nd Speed (Clutch 4) solenoid circuit current below normal
081 1405 05 - 3rd & 4th Speed (Clutch 5) solenoid circuit current below normal
081 1405 06 - 3rd & 4th Speed (Clutch 5) solenoid circuit current above normal

All "036" prefix Codes are registered in the engine ECM.
036 0247 09 - Trans ECM has stopped transmitting a J1939 speed request (TSC1) incorrectly or has started transmitting a J1939 speed request incorrectly.
036 0174 02/036 0342 02 - together these two Codes indicate that the fuel injection pump has suffered a complete failure of the electrical supply
036 0110 03 - engine coolant temp sensor signal voltage greater than 4.95 Volts DC for more than eight seconds
036 1684 14 - engine ECM communication failure with the fuel injection pump
036 1684 10 - improper response from the fuel injection pump (open circuit, wire shorted high or low)
036 1684 11 - internal problem in fuel injection pump. There may be air in the fuel injection pump. The voltage and/or resistance at the connectors for the fuel injection pump are incorrect

 

[Ben Weller]

Thankyou yet again Nige, we have narrowed it down to the transmission output speed sensor. The sensor itself has bad pitting on it from being in underground conditions. The other codes, high low voltage, open circuit ect I can mostly account for and make sense with the way I was testing. The fuel pump is a concern though. I am about to leave for Perth to get a new output sensor and trans temp sensor. The state of the temp sender would explain the burnt fuse? I hope? Myself and my boss have been trawling the net for days, and if the powers that be are correct, the dud tranny sensor/s can cut the gears completely. I’d also like to extend you our warmest thanks Nige, your input has saved us hours upon hours of searching and difficulty, very much appreciated mate! Will update you tomorrow or the day after on the loader. 7 hour drive one way to get the parts! Cheers again!

 

[Ben Weller]

Thankyou yet again Nige, we have narrowed it down to the transmission output speed sensor. The sensor itself has bad pitting on it from being in underground conditions. The other codes, high low voltage, open circuit ect I can mostly account for and make sense with the way I was testing. The fuel pump is a concern though. I am about to leave for Perth to get a new output sensor and trans temp sensor. The state of the temp sender would explain the burnt fuse? I hope? Myself and my boss have been trawling the net for days, and if the powers that be are correct, the dud tranny sensor/s can cut the gears completely. I’d also like to extend you our warmest thanks Nige, your input has saved us hours upon hours of searching and difficulty, very much appreciated mate! Will update you tomorrow or the day after on the loader. 7 hour drive one way to get the parts! Cheers again!

 

[Nige]

The problem as I see it is identifying which Diagnostic Codes are Active at this moment, as opposed to those Codes that may have been there once but are not there right now. Hence my question of the letter "A" in the window appearing/disappearing as the items on the list scroll through. That would focus things to look for.

The length of your list leads me to believe that 90% or more of the Codes are probably Logged, and can be discarded for now at least for the purposes of identifying your problem.

Based on what you're proposing to buy/replace in the way of sensors, etc, I can't help think that you are firing the parts cannon at the problem in a hope that one or more of what you replace will fix it.

 

[Ben Weller]

Is there any other diagnostics or tests I can do to further diagnose or pin point the problem? The temp sensor has to be replaced regardless as it is cactus, the output sensor was the only active code we had? If you have any other suggestions mate I’m all ears, I’m in Perth now and due to pick the parts up today. If I am indeed wrong….. I reckon the boss might say some bad words…. Again, many thanks.

 

[Nige]

The temp sensor has to be replaced regardless as it is cactus, the output sensor was the only active code we had?

No, the Active Code you have, if the "A" in front of it is any clue, was for the transmission temp sensor (A081 0177 03) which you said was disconnected when you read the Codes which would explain it.

 

[Ben Weller]

Ah, I apologise. My boss was reading the error code list as I was writing down what it meant. 171/191. I wish this thing had a self destruct function…. I think mine is about to activate. Ok, so I have to replace the temp sender, as the black wire rubbed through on a hydraulic hose. another person stripped, cut n rejoined it. I’m paranoid about it and would rather get it replaced than have it linger in the back of my mind. Any other advice? Many thanks.

 

[Ben Weller]

Can low voltage, ie flat batteries two days in a row affect the modules/controllers? ECM/TCM?

 

[Ben Weller]

Can low voltage, ie flat batteries two days in a row affect the modules/controllers? ECM/TCM?

 

[Ben Weller]

T

The problem as I see it is identifying which Diagnostic Codes are Active at this moment, as opposed to those Codes that may have been there once but are not there right now. Hence my question of the letter "A" in the window appearing/disappearing as the items on the list scroll through. That would focus things to look for.

The length of your list leads me to believe that 90% or more of the Codes are probably Logged, and can be discarded for now at least for the purposes of identifying your problem.

Based on what you're proposing to buy/replace in the way of sensors, etc, I can't help think that you are firing the parts cannon at the problem in a hope that one or more of what you replace will fix it.

There was only the one “A” in the entire list Nige. I had to let it scroll through about 5-6 times to make sure I got them right.

 

[Nige]

Can low voltage, ie flat batteries two days in a row affect the modules/controllers? ECM/TCM?

Shouldn't do. They retain their memory even when de-powered.

My boss was reading the error code list as I was writing down what it meant. 171/191. I wish this thing had a self destruct function…. I think mine is about to activate. Ok, so I have to replace the temp sender, as the black wire rubbed through on a hydraulic hose. another person stripped, cut n rejoined it. I’m paranoid about it and would rather get it replaced than have it linger in the back of my mind. Any other advice? Many thanks.

The problem with a list of Codes as long as that one is that it's like not being able to see the wood for the trees.
That's why having ET would be so useful. It would permit all the Logged Codes to be erased thus leaving you with a list that might only comprise at most one or two Codes that are Active.

The problem might just as easily be mechanical but doing the diagnostics you have to start semewhere and eliminating electrical/electronic issues as a root cause is often the easiest to do first.

Do you have any pressure gauges to enable transmission/converter pressures to be checked.?