• Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!

CAT D7E Electric Drive Dozer

stretch

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
784
Location
Southington, CT
Occupation
gopher
I think it looks smaller than the current D7's...is this technology going to be put into the other dozers eventually?
 

herbsupurb

Member
Joined
May 25, 2008
Messages
16
Location
PA
I dont know for sure, but safe to assume that this will be in all machines, or most of machines soon after all the bugs are worked out of this one. It does look smaller, but you dont need a torque convertor, trans, no more elevated sprocket, all this makes it look a lot smaller than the R series. I think what they are doing here is preparing for the next emissions due date. If you have an engine that runs a constant RPM all day long, you dont get the particulates in the exhaust with no acelaration. The generator on the engine and other electronic devices would monitor the amps going to the motors giving different speeds and torque abilities while the engine just purs prob around 1800 RPM's.
 

bobcatmechanic

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
429
Location
kansas
Occupation
bobcat mechanic
there has been rumor that bobcat is working on a electric drive loader also i know its a skid steer but still electric drive just thought youd like to hear the rumor
 

eRay

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
63
Location
Southeast Tennessee
I am a railroad engineer and electric drive motors have been used on locomotives for decades now. They eliminate all clutch problems and pull incredable loads. Two 3500 HP locomotives pull 12,000 tons of coal through the hills of Kentucky and East Tennessee.Biggest drawback I see is a time lag between throttle and machine response. Also you probably wouldn't want to use the electric motors around water as we can only operate in 3 inches or less.They also develope about 600 volts and a lot of amps which could make them a little dangerous to work on.
 

Dozer575

Banned
Joined
Mar 2, 2007
Messages
274
Location
Seattle, wa
Occupation
Machinist and occasional pt Dozer oper
eray, so what is the cost to rewind those motors?
Here is what electrics mean.
Total electronic controls, very expensive to fix, very difficult to fix, designed in break points that will shut the machine down at a predetermined amount of operating time, and require very expensive dealership only overhauls. Many sealed not servicable components, like Ozdozer mentioned years ago. Expensive black boxes that are only replaced and not fixed. This is like the hybrid cars today, and the $4000. battery packs that last only so long.
Did you know the CNC machine tool manufacture Mazak has a new system that recognizes if the machine has been moved? And if it sets then you have to call mazak service to enter the secret password to get it going again. I'm sure the new electronic/electric dozers will be the same. So say a state like California does not want that particular machine in the state because it doesn't meet some new standard. As soon as its GPS reports its new position, it will be sent the no start or no move signal.
I read a deal years ago how machines had a system that if you forgot a payment the dealer would send a signal to lock the engine from starting. Lets say your on a hot job and they accidently shut it down on a holiday weekend? Or is was some paperwork mix up.
One good thing, no more transmission overfill to keep it from slipping out of gear on a steep slope.
Will they keep the same efficiency as a transmission? It takes power to convert to electric then back to mechanical again. With the cost of fuel I'd rather see that power on the tracks.
So when are they going to use ball screws for the lift cylinders? They need fool proof idiot machines for the up and comming generation of operators. I hope they are installing high power sterio systems, and video games that the operator can play while sitting there as the machine does all the work.
And like eray says, dangerous to work on. And they think there is a fire hazzard now. Wait till they have a few of them working around wood chips that light up.
For sure the alternators/motors can not be air cooled, as there is alot of things like fir needles, leaves, wood dust etc. that gets in the nooks and cranys.
They will be cheaper to make, alot less gears to produce.
And how come its just a dozer, where are the electric excavators and wheel loaders etc?
How come they always fool with the dozers?
And as long as the high drives go by by its a good thing I guess.
I hope Komatsu doesn't go electric. It will fizzle, like it did with Letourneau machines.
 

stretch

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
784
Location
Southington, CT
Occupation
gopher
I would imagine they fool with dozers first because dozers are probably one of the simplest of mechanized earthmoving machines.

And as for automatic shut-off after movement to another location, I am betting that that is some sort of theft-deterrent...although I can see why it would be a PITA.
 

eRay

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
63
Location
Southeast Tennessee
About $30,000 to rebuild a traction motor. Not a big problem on a 2 million dollar locomotive, but I can see how that would be cost prohibitative on a dozer. Also you have to be very careful to immediately shut the throttle off if the machine stalls or the electrical current will "spot" the traction motor. Big problems. However in addition to the clutch you eliminate the need for a transmission. Of course that is cancelled out by the need for a generator. The locomotives have a self diagnostic panel built in which analizes any equipment failures and advises if you can correct it yourself and how to fix it.Of course very few problems on this equipment can be repaired in the field.
 

Deas Plant

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
1,533
Location
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
Dozer575's un-substantiated rant.

Hello, Dozer575.
As per usual, you have thrown a lot of words up in the air as being fact and presented not one shred of proof of what you claim.

Why not electric drive dozers? They have had FULL electric face shovels, stripping shovels and draglines for 60 or 70 years with no major dramas. Why should it not be possible with much more advanced technology to make a viable electric drive dozer? C'mon, wise guy, give us the REASONS.

Why should they have 'designed in break points that will shut down at a predetermined amount of operating time'? What a load of crap? Has it ever occurred to you that there might be a HUGE lawsuit against ANY company that deliberately did anything like that? Not to mention the fact that there are laws against that sort of planned obsolescence.

Why should they have GPS location shut-down systems just because one state or another does not want them in that state? Why would any state not want them? Have you been pedalling your anti-Cat propaganda to them in your spare time when you're not being a PITA here?

You prattle on about power loss converting from mechanical to electric and back again. What about the power loss through a normal mechanical direct drive/torque converter/powershift tranmission? Why is drawbar HP always less than flywheel HP? Or have you figured out a way to make that not count?

Cooling as an issue has been dealt with long ago and there have been totally sealed alternators and AC electric motors for many decades now. Or have you had your head in the sand conveniently ignoring this technology?

Quote: "So when are they going to use ball screws for the lift cylinders? They need fool proof idiot machines for the up and comming generation of operators. I hope they are installing high power sterio systems, and video games that the operator can play while sitting there as the machine does all the work." Unquote.

Nowhere that I have seen yet is Cat claiming that the operator will only have to sit on the bank under a shady tree or will have to sit in the machine with nothing to do while the machine does all the work. I would love to be able to take my PC/laptop to work and do all sorts of things on it while that nice new self-controlling Cat electric drive dozer did it all on its own and I still get paid for my time. I wish. LOL.

Quote: "And as long as the high drives go by by its a good thing I guess." Unquote.

Back to your old, tired theme again, Bob? When are you going to admit that the Cat high-sprocket drive dozers have achieved a market penetration way beyond any other manufacturer in history, especially in the higher end of the market, where you have been predicting for as long as I have known of you that they would fail? Get real. Admit that you're flogging your own dead horse and have been wrong all along. I'll bet you're not man enough for that.

Bob, may I suggest that you go and get yourself a life somewhere and stop posting your utter rot here and on other forums.
 

Sparffo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
223
Location
Finland
Occupation
Demolition contractor
Hello, Dozer575.
8< clip clip 8<

jiihaa! word Deas! :drinkup

Dozer575, welcome to the new world, gone are the ccu:s and direct drives...

you where wondering where the electric excavators and loaders are, ok, Deas all ready mentioned some of them, but also almost any large mining equipment use electric drive.

part of the problem why dozers burn up is the leaking oil mixed with collected dirt, i think the problem will be a little bit smaller with electric drives.

electric drive has less rotating parts and friction= more power to the ground.

electric parts and motors can also be water cooled like any other engine -> you can transfer the fire dangerous heat to a radiator.

the thing you wrote with the lift cylinders was ridicolous :D:D or plain stupidity...
even if a machine has electric drive it still can have a hydraulic pump or plenty of them.

and the gps part of the story??? wtf? Dozer575 you shouldn't look at those scifi movies, they are bad for you!
did you know that Komatsu with some aliens from Mars are developing a dozer without under carriage! it will hover around on lazer beams! :cool:
 

RollOver Pete

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2007
Messages
1,510
Location
Indio, Ca
Occupation
Operating Engineer/mechanic
I'm guessing that Bob works for Komatsu :beatsme
Perhaps a night watchman or maybe in the janitorial research and development department :confused:
:cool:
 

surfer-joe

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2007
Messages
1,403
Location
Arizona
Ya know, I've been around dozers for a long time, and I still have no love nor respect for a D7 size machine. I've run plenty of them, and always found myself wishing for a D8 or a D6 size unit to perform what I was doing. Betwixt and between, that's what I call a D7 size dozer. Too little for bigger jobs. Too big for smaller work. Throwing electric drive into one doesn't help my opinion, nor putting it back into low drive either. Now we wait for real world test comparisons on power, fuel economy, and other metrics.
 

Deas Plant

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
1,533
Location
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
Betwixt and between.

Hi, Surfer-joe.
I suspect that is why Cat picked the D7 to be the test bed for diesel-electric power, 'cos it is betwixt and between, neither your elbow nor your armpit. It's less likely to cause their share prices to fall radically if it doesn't set the world on fire. How-wevver, looking at the succes of the electric drive dump trucks, bigger face shovels and draglines and the long history of electric and diesel-electric locomotives, I honestly can't see any reason why it can't be made to succeed. Anybody who knows anything about electric motors knows that they usually produce their greatest torque at or very near stall. What better characteristic could you ask for in something like a dozer - torque output rising as the drive motor slows?

D8Bob, did you get that?
 

Dozer575

Banned
Joined
Mar 2, 2007
Messages
274
Location
Seattle, wa
Occupation
Machinist and occasional pt Dozer oper
Sufer, I agree about the D7 size dozer, kinda a big cat feel with no push. I was very impressed with a D6 the first time I ran one.
 

Deas Plant

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
1,533
Location
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
No idea again.

Hello, Dozer 575.
Nobody that I know who has any idea of what they are talking about would claim that a D7 has 'no push'. What I think Surfer-joe was referring to is that the D7 is just not big enough for big jobs and too big for the smaller ones. It falls into a sort of no-man's land which leaves it out of its class in most applications. IMHO, it stll makes a pretty good agricultural contracting machine for all but the heaviest clearing and big dam-sinking/pond building.

Back when I was a little tacker, they were a VERY popular agricultural contracting machine, especially for clearing timber when fitted with a tree pusher and timber canopy. They saw the IH TD18's pretty much right out of business around where I grew up so they must have had something going for them.
 

Deas Plant

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
1,533
Location
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
Shocking waste.

Hi, RollOverPete.
You need to develop more discipline and self control. You realise, I hope, that that is a shocking waste of Jack. Alcoholics Unanimous would just about ban you for life for that. And such waste in these hard times is almost criminal. You could have given it to some poor soul who has had to give up his share of Jack so that he can afford his crack fix 'cos he's not smart enough to realise that the Jack will do him less harm. LOL.
 
Last edited:

Pushblock

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
20
Location
Nashville Tn
Occupation
I own a stone masonry business and also do some li
Deas, you are so right!

After reading all the specs on the D7E, I realized that Cat did their homework on this tractor. With the torque characteristics of electric drive, this machine should have some serious grunt. I do believe that if Dozer575
had actually read all the specs on this machine, he would not have made
a bunch of gratuitous objections to electric drive.
I am looking forward to production and cost specs on the D7E after some real-world use.
 
Top