CAT 963 - Right Machine?

[Welder Dave]

Would be interesting to know why machines built in the 80's and maybe later didn't have a fuel gauge.

 

[DMiller]

Simplicity. Have to get off machines periodically, check all fluids prior to resuming work.

 

[BackertheBiker]

More great info - thank you all! So revised estimate here - maybe I'm looking at 150 hours total seat time in the loader? Still a formidable amount of money in fuel, but manageable and still well below the estimate for someone to do it for me.. Plus I'll get to play in the dirt - that's always worth something.

 

[CM1995]

More great info - thank you all! So revised estimate here - maybe I'm looking at 150 hours total seat time in the loader? Still a formidable amount of money in fuel, but manageable and still well below the estimate for someone to do it for me.. Plus I'll get to play in the dirt - that's always worth something.

2 acres, 350' long dam max depth 22'?

I think you need to sharpen your pencil a little - Don't think you're going to do that by yourself in 150 hrs with a 963 and 655 unless I missed a few details along the way.

 

[skyking1]

I'd also say that anyone who bid it < 20K is also suspect. Sometimes a bid is too good to be true.

 

[BackertheBiker]

2 acres, 350' long dam max depth 22'?

I think you need to sharpen your pencil a little - Don't think you're going to do that by yourself in 150 hrs with a 963 and 655 unless I missed a few details along the way.

Well, I'm really trying hard to figure this out.. I posted a 300 hour guess earlier in the thread, and someone said there's no way I could sink 300 hours into a 9k yard dam. So I looked at the math a little more and thought maybe 150 hours is in the right ballpark here..? Hell, I have no clue - I'm hoping to hear from everyone here with experience, what their guess would be..

To be clear, I'm just damming up a valley. I don't have to dig a full 2 acre pond out of flat ground. I just have to build the dam, and of course make sure I have a good cover of clay (readily available) over the pond bottom.

I need a poll here - how many hours of seat time am I looking at?

Btw, quote came in at $14.5k, and they're a reputable local company.

 

[CM1995]

Well we can't give any type of real estimate without seeing and walking the site so any advice outside of that is just a WAG.

Any pictures?

$14.5K sounds super cheap. If that's the going rate for a project like this including mobilization I'm glad I don't have to compete with them.

 

[skyking1]

I'd not risk your friend's machine and waste your time to beat that. At the end of the month that you have tied up in this project, you have to pay yourself something for the troubles.

 

[BackertheBiker]

Only photo I have right now below, and that was last week when I only had 1 side of the creek cleaned up. Hard to get a good photo of the area - it’s all still wooded right now. Working on that, and I’m just trying to figure out what it’ll take after the trees are gone and roots and limbs are burned, and I’m just working dirt. Before that is all backhoe work, at my leisure, and that thing basically sips fuel comparatively.

Fairly steep hill on either side. Down in a valley. I’ll say it winds about 200 yards back into the woods. I’ll see if I can get a better shot of it today

 

[CM1995]

Considered having a logger look at the trees?

Might not get much if any for the timber but the trees would be gone. However it could create more work stumping though.

 

[Welder Dave]

I think it would go faster if you had someone driving a dump truck. You could be pushing up piles while the truck was dumping and then loading what you pushed up. There would be a lot of driving hauling 1 bucket at a time and then non productive time driving back. It could be hard to figure out an average time for each bucket load. Also wondering if you're going to pack the dam as you go? That takes time away from digging material. Also have to consider you're not a seasoned operator so it will take longer to do, likely a lot longer. $14.5K to have it all done seems really really cheap to me too.

 

[BackertheBiker]

Yeah, I’m going to knock trees down, cut stumps off and de-limb myself, then I have a guy coming to get the logs. Won’t get much out of it, but a little toward the fuel bill.

Also, I know this is probably hard for some here to understand because this has probably been your job for a good portion of your life - but I work in a damn office all day long. So coming home and running equipment for the evening is enjoyable for me. I don’t owe myself anything for the troubles - the experience and accomplishment I’ll get doing it myself will be more than enough compensation. So long as it’s actually achievable for me within budget - and that’s what I’m making sure of here

 

[BackertheBiker]

I think it would go faster if you had someone driving a dump truck. You could be pushing up piles while the truck was dumping and then loading what you pushed up. There would be a lot of driving hauling 1 bucket at a time and then non productive time driving back. It could be hard to figure out an average time for each bucket load. Also wondering if you're going to pack the dam as you go? That takes time away from digging material. Also have to consider you're not a seasoned operator so it will take longer to do, likely a lot longer. $14.5K to have it all done seems really really cheap to me too.

Interesting. I’ll have to see if I have a buddy with a dump truck willing to put some time in. I think this only makes sense if there are 2 people, operating the loader and the truck at the same time.

 

[Welder Dave]

Yes, you'd need someone driving the truck. I remember when a friend ran my skid steer to clear snow while I was working. He said it was fun for the first 4 or 5 hours and then pretty boring after that. Maybe you could get a quote to get the material moved and you do the final finishing? Does the 9000 yards take into account packing?

 

[redneckracin]

Don't forget about compaction...... Running over it with a dump truck is not the same. Also, what are your plans for overflow? Maybe it would be worth the investment for a quick survey so you can get some better numbers figured out. I know its always surprising the amount of material that needs moved to get to final grade....

 

[DMiller]

Last pond I saw an estimate for here, 12' depth, 25' levee/dam, back grading of approach and outfall, set of a Drain tile overflow with a Emergency side spillway, over $30k, NO excess tree removals, did allot for a depth of adequate soils base test cut sets. Included Hydroseed.

 

[CM1995]

Don't forget about compaction...... Running over it with a dump truck is not the same.

How so?

A loaded tandem dump truck is a great compactor it's just slow compared to an 84" pad foot or smooth drum vibratory roller. Loaded 6x6's are great compactors as well. Keeping loaded trucks on top of the preceding fill lift speeds up compaction and helps the load on the compactor.

A friend of mine that is a geotechnical engineer prefers a proof roll with a loaded tandem over a nuke gage his words - "A loaded tandem doesn't lie, a nuke gauge will".

 

[DMiller]

One bad lift of clay will as wet not compact but turn to mush, have to be carful how compact some materials.

 

[CM1995]

One bad lift of clay will as wet not compact but turn to mush, have to be carful how compact some materials.

Yep a loaded tandem will tell the truth on a lift of clay that was too wet 1' below the surface that's being tested.

 

[Welder Dave]

What is the compaction rate for clay, 3 to 1 or 4 to 1 or something like that? 9000 yds. compacted would require a lot more material. Without a dump truck and just using the loader would require a perfect moisture content and shallow lifts to get any kind of compaction but still not as much as a dump truck or compactor. It sounds like it would be a good job for a compactor with a blade or wheeled compactor like a Cat 815. The more I look at this job the more I think it would better to hire it out to someone with all the necessary equipment. $14.5K seems like a steal if it includes compaction. A novice operator with just a 963 I think would be there for a long long time and get frustrated with how long it's taking especially if they're also working a full time job. Using the 963 to do clean up and clearing tree's a stumps would be a good plan. When we cleared bush for my oval track we hired it out because although I could have done it, it would have taken forever with my 1yd 931B and backhoe. It cost about $25Kcad. and I'm sure was a lot less than 9000yds. including scraping the topsoil off, digging holes to bury the brush and loading the clay from the holes to put back on the track surface and spread out.