CAT 416B cranks but won’t start

[rocks]

I have primed the line multiple times. The lift fuel pump was new (it ran fine with it ). Fuel and air filter are clean. I checked the battery voltage with key on and it didn't drop voltage. I tried to jump start it and it didn't help.
I think it's cranking a bit slow. The first crank seems stronger then it weakens after that. Battery test passed.
White smoke comes out the exhaust.
At one point I think I primed it too much and black smoke came out. But didn't last long.
I noticed when I steer the wheels it trust to crank faster. I checked all hydraulic levers and they were all in neutral.
What could be the cause?
I appreciate any help

 

[Dave Neubert]

started dragging does the cables get hot

 

[rocks]

honestly I didn't check that. How do I confirm if the starter is going bad?
Just bite the bullet and replace it?

 

[92U 3406]

I'd start by check the voltage drop on the cables from the battery positive post to the starter (check on the starter side of the starter solenoid). Then from starter negative post/starter case to the battery negative post. If you're losing voltage you'll have slow crank.

 

[BigWrench55]

What are the circumstances before it didn’t start. Did you run it out of fuel? Did you shut it off and it never started again? I ask because from what you are describing it sounds like you are not getting fuel. From what you have stated your starter and battery sounds good. When you primed the engine did you crack open the injector lines to let the air out? Did you fill the filters up with fuel? All these things must be done to start the engine after it ran dry of fuel. If that’s not the case then I would check your fuel shut off solenoid. I hope that this will help.

 

[Bls repair]

Crack injector line to see if your getting fuel?

 

[rocks]

Prior to this, it worked great. Mostly when I primed it I used the lift fuel pump manually. I opened one injector line just to see if I am getting fuel and I did while cranking the engine. Is the fuel supposed to be in burst motion or steady squirts?
I don't think this model has a fuel shut off valve as I couldn't locate it.

 

[BigWrench55]

You should see burst of fuel. If you are not making a lot of fuel out of the injector line then you are not getting fuel. The two wires on top of your injection pump are what shut the engine down. Check to see if you have power and ground. If you do have voltage and ground you could have a failed kill solenoid. But before you get crazy and yank the pump off check to see if you are getting fuel to the injection pump. Your fuel system goes like this. Tank to water separator filter, to lift pump then fuel filter, then injection pump and then your injectors. Start from the tank and work your way back to the injectors. If you have any questions just ask and I will try to answer them quickly.

 

[Mark250]

I noticed when I steer the wheels it trust to crank faster. I checked all hydraulic levers and they were all in neutral.

It sounds like your hydraulic pump may not be unloading .do you have access to test gauges ?
Do you know how to test your system pressure while cranking ? let us know if you don't
mark

 

[rocks]

You should see burst of fuel. If you are not making a lot of fuel out of the injector line then you are not getting fuel. The two wires on top of your injection pump are what shut the engine down. Check to see if you have power and ground. If you do have voltage and ground you could have a failed kill solenoid. But before you get crazy and yank the pump off check to see if you are getting fuel to the injection pump. Your fuel system goes like this. Tank to water separator filter, to lift pump then fuel filter, then injection pump and then your injectors. Start from the tank and work your way back to the injectors. If you have any questions just ask and I will try to answer them quickly.

I only had 20 minutes to work on it today. Here is what I did:
I do have voltage at the wires on top of the injector pump. Is that good or no?
I opened the return line on the water separator and primed it using lift pump, and it was squirting with some air I think.
Like spitting fuel.
I removed the bolt on the injector pump, and used the lift pump again. They were drops of fuel coming out. No squirting or bursts.
I removed the upper bolt and primed it, but nothing came out.
On the pics attached you see the bolts I used.
My fuel system goes from tank to fuel filter to lift pump to water separator to injector pump.

 

[rocks]

It sounds like your hydraulic pump may not be unloading .do you have access to test gauges ?
Do you know how to test your system pressure while cranking ? let us know if you don't
mark

I have never done that but I would like to learn how.

 

[AllDodge]

Sure sounds like you have air in the fuel lines an this is why it won't run

Voltage on the wires is good
Those bolts will not bleed the pump
I think, you should loosen the black top and while pumping the primer pump, should get fuel out.

Pump the primer pump and crack each one of the injection lines until fuel comes out and then close. When retightening lines, have the primer pump held down or while fuel is dripping out

 

[BigWrench55]

All dodge is right removing those plugs will not prime the system. First I would like to know that you are getting fuel to the injection pump. Take the line that comes from the water separator to the injection pump off at the pump. Turn the engine over. If you are not seeing a lot of fuel coming from the line then your lift pump isn’t working. You never mentioned if you removed the fuel filters and made sure that they were full of fuel. That little hand pump will fill your filters eventually but you will wear out ten peoples arms trying to do so. It’s just easier to remove the filter and top it off.

 

[rocks]

Sure sounds like you have air in the fuel lines an this is why it won't run

Voltage on the wires is good
Those bolts will not bleed the pump
I think, you should loosen the black top and while pumping the primer pump, should get fuel out.

Pump the primer pump and crack each one of the injection lines until fuel comes out and then close. When retightening lines, have the primer pump held down or while fuel is dripping out

Sorry, what black top are referring to? On the water separator?

 

[rocks]

All dodge is right removing those plugs will not prime the system. First I would like to know that you are getting fuel to the injection pump. Take the line that comes from the water separator to the injection pump off at the pump. Turn the engine over. If you are not seeing a lot of fuel coming from the line then your lift pump isn’t working. You never mentioned if you removed the fuel filters and made sure that they were full of fuel. That little hand pump will fill your filters eventually but you will wear out ten peoples arms trying to do so. It’s just easier to remove the filter and top it off.

I never removed the fuel filter. I will do what you suggested on removing the line at injector pump and see if I am getting fuel.
Also, I would like to try to connect the output line from fuel filter that goes to the lift pump to a clean bucket of fuel and see if that changes anything.
By doing that I think it would eliminate fuel tank air vent and any damage in lines between the tank to the lift pump. I believe this part of system is suction.

 

[AllDodge]

Sorry, what black top are referring to? On the water separator?

Item 2

 

[Bluox]

Number 2 is your filter priming pump, unscrew it carefully and clean it out If its really full remove line from tank and clean out that fitting then try to prime system.
Bob

 

[thepumpguysc]

OK.. time for me to step in..
#1>>Fill the filter w/ fuel & reinstall.
#2>>Loosen ALL the lines AT THE INJECTORS or as many as u can get to.. more = better.
#3>> REMOVE THE FITTING from the top of the injection pump.. the return line AND THE FITTIING..
let the fuel run out on the ground..
#4>>Loosen the fitting at the back of the inj. pump..the INLET LINE
#5>>Spin/Crank the engine until u get fuel at the INLET LINE & tighten..
#6>>Spin/crank the engine until u get fuel AT THE LOOSENED INJ. LINES & tighten..
#7>> Start the engine.. wait until its started & running smooth before u put the TOP FITTING BACK IN.
#8>> IF the engine shuts off when u put the fitting back in?? Pull it back out & clean it..
theres a glass ckeckball & spring in it..
#9>> IF it KEEPS SHUTTING OFF, the pump needs a rebuild..
I hope this helps.. GOOD LUCK.. TPG

 

[rocks]

Here is what I have done in a short window.
I opened the top on the fuel filter and cranked the engine. Fuel didn't splash everywhere, but it was coming out. I cracked the input line to the filter and it was a good amount of fuel.
I cracked the inline to the injector pump and it was a good amount of fuel.
No fuel on the return line coming of the injector pump.
I cracked open all injector lines and there was same amount of fuel on each line. I would say the amount is equal to two drops.
No squirting or bursts just drops.
I didn't have time to do all what was suggested today. But will try it this weekend

 

[rocks]

Item 2

View attachment 187291

Is the injector pump serviceable? Will screw up the timing? I start to think that is the culprit.