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Cat 299D2 Cranks, Won't start

Discussion in 'Track Loaders' started by david_, May 8, 2022.

  1. Cmark

    Cmark Senior Member

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    I can't really add anything beyond what Nige has said. Set the engine so that #4 is at TDC on its compression stroke and see if the timing marks are there. Because of the ratios between the crank gear, big idler and small idler the timing marks will only line up once every n revolutions. If they don't happen to line up, you will have to remove the front cover and reset the idler gear.

    upload_2022-5-29_9-39-19.png
     
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  2. Cmark

    Cmark Senior Member

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    Oh. And I believe some confusion has arisen about the timing marks for setting TDC. I think they are behind the cover #6.

    upload_2022-5-29_10-6-48.png

    upload_2022-5-29_10-6-4.png
     
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  3. david_

    david_ Active Member

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    I have. found. the. problem.

    Today I decided to take apart the HPFP to have another look when, you know, I wasn't drinking.

    I noticed that I hadn't taken off the piston head. So I proceeded to work on the four bolts, but the first one was uh, LOOSE. WHA?! Loose as in a tiny gap under the bolt-head.

    I took off the head and this is what I found: (click to expand)


    [​IMG]

    The O-ring for the high pressure head had been carelessly installed, with no oil, and so the O-ring had been smushed.

    Whoever it was just tightened it up and it lasted a couple years. When I went down the ledge with a -bump- it was enough for the final loosening of the bolt, the head leaked, and the engine quit in a classic mechanical failure syndrome.

    Then I opened up the cover for the gear pump and that O-ring had also been smushed.

    I'll bet I'm not the only one this has happened to.

    DOH'Reilly Auto Parts only had fat O-rings and NAPTHA was closed, so it'll have to be Tuesday and a hydraulic hose shop to find decent O-rings.
     
  4. david_

    david_ Active Member

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    So this timing thing doesn't make sense.

    I turn the crank 10-11 quarter-turns, and the mark comes up on the large idler gear. It is very clear during one of these full cycles, the two compression points, although I can't know which is 1-4 or 2-3. And neither of these compression points correspond with appearance of the mark on the large idler.

    I've looked everywhere for access to the flywheel but there is none on the front of the engine:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The yellow mark on the HPFP's idler gear has disappeared, although there is a single dot on one side and a double-dot on the opposite side. I guess the single-dot is where the yellow mark used to be.

    Maybe I do have to resort to removing the valve cover. But that can only give an approximation of TDC, within several gear teeth.
     
  5. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    Try looking at the rear RH side of the engine (opposite side to the starter motor) for the Plug #6 as posted by Cmark in the illustration a few posts above.
     
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  6. david_

    david_ Active Member

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    Oh, Ok thanks.

    It is just impossible to get to.
     
  7. david_

    david_ Active Member

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    I am going to assume that the first compression in the rotation is 1-4. (I am too chicken to remove the valve cover, dropped bolts into the abyss, etc)

    Now all I have to do is determine direction of rotation. Docs say manually rotate CCW, but that's opposite of most gas engines.
     
  8. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    The documentation should state something like "viewed from" either the front or the rear of the engine. Which way you happen to be looking makes somewhat of a difference.
     
  9. Cmark

    Cmark Senior Member

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    If you can't get to the flywheel housing and don't want to remove the valve cover, the front housing is going to have to come off. In fact this is probably your quickest and simplest option anyway.

    And rotation is CCW from the flywheel end.
     
  10. david_

    david_ Active Member

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    Yup. CW on the back end.
     
  11. david_

    david_ Active Member

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    That's it. I can't fix this piece of sh1t. And I'm not putting in no $2,600 HPFP or $1.400 fuel rail.

    I am getting rid of it. I have far more important things to do.
     
  12. Cmark

    Cmark Senior Member

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    That's the spirit
     
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  13. Mbar

    Mbar Well-Known Member

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    Wanna sell it
     
  14. david_

    david_ Active Member

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    Yes I am selling it on Equipment Trader or at auction. I am banned at Cat so I can't have them fix it, after buying over $26k in parts to renew this PoS, and due to the old SIS being crappy misordered $2,400 of parts. They refused to credit them to me and so we have a disagreement. (Nothing to do with the engine)

    No more Cats for my company. It's Volvo or Deere.

    I am trying to build 9 houses, and am prosecuting three legal actions. I simply have more important things to do.

    I would get a new HPFP but I do not have the additional mental resources nor time to figure out the timing with precision. Their terrible, vague instructions are useless.
     
  15. Cmark

    Cmark Senior Member

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    I can tell you in about three or four simple sentences how to reset the timing if you like?
     
  16. david_

    david_ Active Member

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    Get at the back/side of the engine which is inaccessible, to reach the timing window? Remove the gear cover with its 25 bolts dribbling into Hades, not to mention pulling the harmonic balancer? Something else to do in a weekend following my countless other working weekends?

    I am curious though.
     
  17. Cmark

    Cmark Senior Member

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    Yes. Perhaps I'm over simplifying it but.
    Remove crank pulley and timing cover.

    Rotate the crankshaft so the timing mark is at the 12:00 position.

    The camshaft timing mark will now be either pointing towards the big idler gear or away from it. If it is pointing away, rotate the crankshaft another 180 and the camshaft timing marks will now be pointing to the big idler gear.

    Remove the big idler gear and reposition it so its timing marks line up with the crank gear and cam gear timing marks.

    Position the small idler and pump so their timing marks line up.

    Reassemble.
     
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  18. david_

    david_ Active Member

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    This is very clear. And I remember that drawing. As daunting as it is to go through this exercise, I think it's worth a try, probably today. I'll stuff rags or something so bolts aren't as likely to fall under the engine.

    I guess I have to do it all over again, and maybe more, if I have to put in a new HPFP. But I can do that.
     
  19. Cmark

    Cmark Senior Member

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    My apologies. This should be 360.
     
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  20. david_

    david_ Active Member

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    Thanks Cmark, but I just can not do it. Got most everything off today and tackled the crank pulley. Could not crack that bolt. Used a strap wrench but between the oil and coolant it just slipped. Paper towels didn't help.

    I'd borrowed a harmonic balancer puller, but the three holes in the pulley do not expose any bolt-holes anywhere around the diameter, so no way to lock the pulley. Used a hammer on the breaker-bar to try and shock it, but no dice.

    When I was younger I had the wherewithall, although then I did not have the massive mental pressures I have now. I just have to sell the turd.