CAT 259D - No Crank E459-2 Code

[Simon C]

Based on those symptoms I’d say it is highly likely that you have a problem with failing wire(s) in the engine wiring harness, most likely the CAN+ or CAN-

Someone else is going to have to ship you an electrical schematic because my computer is dead at the moment

Will try to post one for him later . Just got it. Nige sent to me a while back.
Simon C

 

[Simon C]

Need to use the 5 amp bulb trick to prove a wire is strong enough to carry the load from one end to another. OHM meter test will only tell you that you are on the wire, tells nothing about the strength of the wire to carry clean power.
Simon C

 

[Simon C]

Just wanted you to know that a guy named Acolar had the E459-2 Code and after doing checking of harness found the ECM Power Relay Control Side Ground Return by C903-C59BU18 that goes through some connections Such as Conn#4 Pin#27 Through Connector#32 to go to the Engine ECM Relay Coil Negative was not up to snuff.
Best to test with the negative Battery Cable disconnected, computer plugs disconnected and a 5 amp bulb hooked up to pin number 23 to the other end at ECM Power Relay Ground wire hooked up to battery Ground. That is the best way to test if the wire has sufficient strength to do the job.
You could test quite a few wires in a day if you were careful and know what is what or at least know these wires are load tested okay.
Simon C

 

[Hunterdan]

Thank you very much that will help a lot trying to get more familiar with how it’s wired and I could very well have same issue as he did ,the Cat shop changed the main power relay when they had it last time thinking that was it
I’m gonna look and find his post also , I’ve been trying to figure out where to start and getting more familiar with the schematic

 

[Simon C]

I use a 9003 automotive bulb with a pigtail to hook up Battery power to it , ( it uses 5.0 amps from the Red to Black wires of the pigtail ) and out of it into the wire being tested. The other end of whatever wire is being tested goes to battery ground. Always disconnect your battery first and take a picture of the ECM with your phone so you can see the colour of the wires beside the one you want to test. It is easier to figure out which pin is what on a 70 pin connection. That is my simpler way to do it as well as taking pictures of other connectors that you want to test up to or through. Good idea to take pictures from the schematic of the location of all the Connectors that you will be working on for location so that you don't send yourself on a wild goose chase. Just a few tricks to save time .
Simon C

 

[Nige]

Just wanted you to know that a guy named Acolar had the E459-2 Code and after doing checking of harness found the ECM Power Relay Control Side Ground Return by C903-C59BU18 that goes through some connections Such as Conn#4 Pin#27 Through Connector#32 to go to the Engine ECM Relay Coil Negative was not up to snuff.

A link to that thread……

CAT 259D - No Crank E459-2 Code

Hi Guys Trying to help my son diagnose a 2015 CAT 259D with 2092 hrs, serial FTL03587. Initial symptom was no crank due to low battery, jump started and ran all day. Drove it onto trailer and off trailer into the shop and next start attempt was a no crank with the E459-2 code. Charged battery ...

www.heavyequipmentforums.com

 

[Johnkorpita]

I just had the e459-2 code pop up on my 2015 299D serial # CAT0299DJGTC01723
I hooked up cat ET and Cat ET does not find the ECM.
Does anyone have the Electrical Schematic they can send me? I will start checking all the known failures in all the e459-2 threads. Thanks for the help!!

 

[Nige]

Judging by the fact that ET cannot see the engine ECM a broken wire in the engine wiring harness is the most likely cause. However this should not divert you from initially checking all the basics such as ground connections, especially the engine ground. See the post just above where I linked a thread by @acolar

Check your message inbox in an hour or so for an electrical schematic.

 

[Johnkorpita]

Judging by the fact that ET cannot see the engine ECM a broken wire in the engine wiring harness is the most likely cause. However this should not divert you from initially checking all the basics such as ground connections, especially the engine ground. See the post just above where I linked a thread by @acolar

Check your message inbox in an hour or so for an electrical schematic.

Thank you Nige. I started inspecting wires and looking for any possible problems. Behind the cab on the (8) Control GP Machine ECM i found some rubbed wires. They were making contact with a hydraulic hose and were rubbed through. The wires have been identified as:
CAN HI-F711-C205 YL- 18
CAN LOW- F712-C209 GN- 18
and
2A on/off drvr rtn 1 -H807-C32-YL16

I am leaning towards the frayed can-bus wires as the problem. However, this problem hasn't been intermittent....it just all of a sudden happened. I am not super familiar with repairing canbus wires...but i am guessing this may be enough to kill the can bus signal. I tried to temporarily tape them and see if it would not cause the e459-2 fault...but that did not work. Anyone have experience with this?

 

[Johnkorpita]

Update: no power to ECM. There is a relay behind the cab. When power is keyed on, it is supposed to send power to the ECM. There are 2 fuses on the relay, those both tested good. The relay is not sending keyed power to ECM. I am glad i found the other wires, those would have been a problem in the near future. I will order a relay, install and update. Hopefully this is it.

Here is a picture of the relay location on the machine and in the schematic. Hope this helps someone else.

 

[Simon C]

Someone else had the exact same location for the problem causing the E459-2 code and a fuse was blown in that location. Might be an idea to clean up all the connections in that area after you disconnect Battery Negative first.
Simon C

 

[Johnkorpita]

Update: Not fixed... Relay was actually good. I put in the new one and it didn't solve the problem...fully bench tested the old one and it worked.
I can get power to the ECM by grounding wire c903-59 to a good ground. The relay will click and it will take away the e459-2 with crank/no start...and give an erractic communication error with no crank condition. I guess the ecu coil relay knows something isn't right even though the ECM gets the power

I ran a new ground from CONN 5 at wire C903-C37 to both C903-59 and C903-51 to bypass any possible break or short in that harness. That did not change anything. Now I am prepared to check between engine ECM and CONN 5. I got the cover off the engine ecu and was able to access the ECM...haven't noticed any visible problems. ECM connectors were both connected properly to ECM.
I have checked fuses and cleaned the grounds behind the cab and in the engine bay/on engine.

When i look at the two large connectors that connect to the ecm, i don't see any numbers like on the other connectors to tell what pin is where. Is there a pinout diagram for these?

Any advice on what to check next or how to test further?

 

[Simon C]

Update: Not fixed... Relay was actually good. I put in the new one and it didn't solve the problem...fully bench tested the old one and it worked.


When i look at the two large connectors that connect to the ecm, i don't see any numbers like on the other connectors to tell what pin is where. Is there a pinout diagram for these?

So if you look on the interactive schematic on Volume #2 Location G16 is the Engine ECM.

There is 80 pins total and pin number 1 is Battery Positive. All the colours are listed for all the pins that are used.---- Pin #36-40 is 5 in a row as an example. If you take a picture with your phone of the computer when you get to the machine you can look at how the plug is configured and for example if it is in 2 rows of 40 openings and you see the 5 in a row with the correct colours on them as on the schematic you can then know which end is 1 versus the other end. The best way is to print off the picture or use your phone to help out.

Hope this gives you an idea of how to figure out the pins if not labeled.
Simon C

 

[Nige]

The engine ECM is apparently a Kubota product so I may be wrong but I recall the Pin numbers being marked on the ECM. Therefore the connector(s) would need to be removed in order to see them.

 

[Hunterdan]

I had same issue checked wires actually changed the whole engine wiring harness which didn’t change anything but was expensive then bringing to my dealer ended up buying a new ecu off eBay I connected it and my machine was able to crank and operate but still had the go mismatch code I brought it up to dealer had it flashed with correct serial number then code went away so I suppose my ECU was bad

 

[Nige]

I had same issue checked wires actually changed the whole engine wiring harness which didn’t change anything but was expensive then bringing to my dealer ended up buying a new ecu off eBay I connected it and my machine was able to crank and operate but still had the go mismatch code I brought it up to dealer had it flashed with correct serial number then code went away so I suppose my ECU was bad

The Kubota engine ECMs are not known for being either robust or reliable.
However it would be a shame to replace an ECM when all along the harness was the cause.

 

[Nige]

I ran a new ground from CONN 5 at wire C903-C37 to both C903-59 and C903-51 to bypass any possible break or short in that harness. That did not change anything. Now I am prepared to check between engine ECM and CONN 5. I got the cover off the engine ecu and was able to access the ECM...haven't noticed any visible problems. ECM connectors were both connected properly to ECM.

Did you investigate the Arc Suppressor that is in that same circuit, even if only to rule it out.?



Also note that C903 connects to not one but two pins (Pin 3 and Pin 23) of the Engine ECM. I have no idea why. Maybe try unpinning both of those wires from the ECM connector and then connect one or other to a good ground. See what that does.

 

[Johnkorpita]

Did you investigate the Arc Suppressor that is in that same circuit, even if only to rule it out.?

View attachment 360807

Also note that C903 connects to not one but two pins (Pin 3 and Pin 23) of the Engine ECM. I have no idea why. Maybe try unpinning both of those wires from the ECM connector and then connect one or other to a good ground. See what that does.

I was able to check the wires from the ECU harness pin 3 and 23 all the way up to the end of the line at the relay and the arc suppressor...alss checked in between at CONN 5. I checked continuity and it was there....so i ran 12volts through the wire and checked with multi meter and also had the 12 volts. Then I powered up a 12v automotive bulb through the line and the and it was bright. I checked it from both pins in the ECU harness-#3 and #23. The connections and wiring seems to be good all the way through.

I did have the thought of switching out the arc suppressor...there is an identical one on the A/C circuit that is easily accessible. I will try that as well just for good measure.

I can also try to unpin and ground pin 3 and then pin 23...but it seems like it would be the same result as grounding that circuit at the other locations...but who knows Its as if the ECM is not internally completing the ground that is needed to open the relay. It appears that all power to that ecm comes via the 150 series wires when that relay is opened...there is also the EGR and MAF sensor that receive power from that relay...i will investigate those as well.

 

[Simon C]

I was able to check the wires from the ECU harness pin 3 and 23 all the way up to the end of the line at the relay and the arc suppressor...alss checked in between at CONN 5. I checked continuity and it was there....so i ran 12volts through the wire and checked with multi meter and also had the 12 volts. Then I powered up a 12v automotive bulb through the line and the and it was bright. I checked it from both pins in the ECU harness-#3 and #23. The connections and wiring seems to be good all the way through.

I did have the thought of switching out the arc suppressor...there is an identical one on the A/C circuit that is easily accessible. I will try that as well just for good measure.

I can also try to unpin and ground pin 3 and then pin 23...but it seems like it would be the same result as grounding that circuit at the other locations...but who knows Its as if the ECM is not internally completing the ground that is needed to open the relay. It appears that all power to that ecm comes via the 150 series wires when that relay is opened...there is also the EGR and MAF sensor that receive power from that relay...i will investigate those as well.

So I checked on the schematic everything that you posted here, you did not mention Conn#23 where the power passes through to go to connector #5 Pin #27. You did mention that you tested it all the way through to the Engine ECM Power Relay Pin #86 so if that wire had current going through it would appear to be okay.
Only thing that sticks out that has not been checked is the ARC Suppressor that Nige mentioned above.

Simon C

 

[Nige]

While you are messing around with that C903 wire on Pins 3 & 23 you could also try proving all the powers and grounds to the Engine ECM. I see a total of 9 power wires and 7 grounds on connector J1 and I suggest that you need to check every one of them.