CAT 14M Creating code E192-3 , 1674-4 & 2175-6

[Mustafa Kamal]

Dear Sir,

We have motor grader CAT 14M, which is creating below problems and codes:
1- E192-3 Steering system malfunctioning
2- 1674-6 Sol Return 1 : Voltage below normal
3- 2175-6 Secondary steering left sol: Current above normal
4- 10 V DC Currnet: Below normal

Requested to please help me out.
Thanks

 

[Nige]

This may take a while .........

Just for all other members information Mr Kamal actually started a conversation with me instead of posting a thread for all to see, so I have the machine S/N - B9J00474. (Digressing a bit here but I have been in contact with the Admins to please post something to make it clearer to all new members how to create a thread instead of posting on their profile page or starting conversations.)

My first question is, do you have a record of the software Part Numbers that are currently installed in all the ECMs on this grader..? I see it was built in March 2008. There have been many software upgrades since then, some of which, according to the no less than five Service Magazine articles between 2009 & 2013, were specifically targeted at the E192 Steering Event amongst others.

Also I suggest to take a look at the condition of the spherical bearings that mount the inside end of the steering cylinders (the 2 holes in the illustration below) for play. If there is any visible movement of the bearing when you move the steering from side to side then the measurement of the bore in the bracket needs to be looked at. Wear in that particular bearing and the (green) bracket into which it mounts has been a problem on every M Series grader I've ever come into contact with.

 

[Mark250]

Hi agree with Nige you should upgrade the software on these machines on a regular basis. for my regular customers I used to update on a good will basis every 1000Hr service
As a first check disconnect the connector from the left steer secondary solenoid and see if your code 2175-6 changes to code 2175-5 this will give an indication wether the solenoid has failed.
If not we need to look at the solenoid return circuit 925 yl back to the ecm pin #54 .
The error code E192-3 is a general indicator for a lot of faults
The code 1674-6 relates to the common return for both secondary steer solenoids

 

[Mustafa Kamal]

Dear Mr. Nige. thanks for your kind help. I have already flashed latest software of all 5 ECM. But same problem exist.

 

[Mustafa Kamal]

Mr. Mark, I have checked left steering solenoid, also interchanged it with right solenoid. But after some moments same code of steering left solenoid and return circuit are generated. I have also checked wire 925 yellow from ECM to solenoid. It's OK.

 

[Nige]

Dear Mr. Nige. thanks for your kind help. I have already flashed latest software of all 5 ECM. But same problem exist.

Can you give a list of the Part Numbers of software that you have loaded at this moment in the various ECMs please. That should be Engine, Powertrain, Implement, & Monitor/Messenger.
I just need to check something.

Also did you check for play in the steering cylinder mount bearings..?

 

[BigWrench55]

Return voltage below normal means that you have a open circuit or the ground wire is broken going back to the ecm. Current above normal means that you have a short to ground going back to the ecm. If I remember right the steer cylinders have sensors inside and are wired up with the cheesiest wiring for cat standards. Check those wires as well. And with any sensor or component with three wires the ground comes from the ecm not chassis ground so it would be a good idea to check continuity from your steering circuit back to ecm. Good luck and I hope that this will help and not confuse you further.

 

[Mustafa Kamal]

 

[Mustafa Kamal]

 

[Mustafa Kamal]

There is also minor leakage/seapage from steering control valve.

 

[Nige]

Regarding your ECM software.
Engine ECM should be upgraded from 495-0115 to 556-0719, but this will not be related to your steering issue.
Powertrain, Implement #1, Implement Slave, & Messenger are all the latest as far as I can see.
Sorry to be insistent about software Part Numbers but I've seen so many steering issues resulting from failure to upgrade software that I like to be sure that all the Powertrain & Implement software is up to date before starting the diagnostic troubleshooting process.

 

[Nige]

There are two different Troubleshooting procedures for the 10V supply, depending on whether the Diagnostic Code is registered in the Transmission or Implement ECM. I have included both.

 

[Mustafa Kamal]

Dear Mr. Nige. Thank you very much for your kind help. I am away from machine now as it is 800 km from me. I will visit machine may be after couple of days. Then I will do all as per your guidance. Thanks once again. Regards.

 

[Nige]

When you visit the machine please don’t forget to check the bearings on the inner end of the steering cylinders as I suggested. I noticed that it does not have an automatic lubrication system fitted. To avoid premature wear it is very important to ensure that those 2 bearings in particular are well greased on a regular basis.

 

[Mustafa Kamal]

When you visit the machine please don’t forget to check the bearings on the inner end of the steering cylinders as I suggested. I noticed that it does not have an automatic lubrication system fitted. To avoid premature wear it is very important to ensure that those 2 bearings in particular are well greased on a regular basis.

Ok. Thanks. But if the bearing is worn out, can it creates code E192-3 ?

 

[Nige]

All I can say is that I have seen many such Events on 16Ms, therefore in my opinion a 14M should behave in a similar fashion as it's just a smaller version of the 16M and more importantly because it uses the same Implement ECM software and steering system logic as the 16M.

The problem if there is play in those bearings when the grader is driving down the road the steering cylinder position sensors detect slight movements of the cylinders caused by the front wheels "fluttering" from side to side without the operator moving the steering joystick. That can be sufficient to generate an E192-3 Event which is described as follows: -

E192 (3) - Immediate safe shutdown required. Activates when the Implement ECM does not receive the expected position signals from the steering cylinder position sensors.

Any of the following Diagnostic Codes can also generate an E192-3 Steering Event. You mentioned CID 1674 & CID 2175 Diagnostic Code. The Troubleshooting Procedures for those two Codes that I posted above would be the first things I would suggest to try.
262 (5 Volt Sensor DC Power Supply)
585 (Transmission Output Speed Sensor #1) *
597 (Main Hydraulic Pump Discharge Pressure Sensor)
673 (Transmission Output Speed Sensor #2) *
674 (Transmission Intermediate Speed Sensor #1) **
675 (Transmission Intermediate Speed Sensor #2) **
1471 (Steering Control Position Sensor #1)
1472 (Steering Control Position Sensor #2)
1473 (Steering Control Position Sensor #3)
2175 (Secondary Steering System Steer Left Solenoid)
2176 (Secondary Steering System Steer Right Solenoid)
1674 (Solenoid Return #1)
2200 (Left Steering Cylinder Position Sensor)
2201 (Right Steering Cylinder Position Sensor)
2202 (Primary Steering Valve Control Module)
2650 (Primary Steering Valve Control Module Power Supply Output)

* Note: CID 585 and CID 673 must BOTH be present to generate an E192-3.
** Note: CID 674 and CID 675 must BOTH be present to generate an E192-3.

 

[Mustafa Kamal]

Dear Mr.Nige,
Thank you very much for your detailed update. We are very close to our fault because initial operator complaint was, E192-3 code appears when machine traveling down stream.
Could you please send me some procedure to check bearing play/wear etc?

 

[Nige]

I wanted to point out the possibility of a mechanical root cause to the problem so that you take it into consideration rather than simply pursuing only the possibility of electronic/wiring issues because Diagnostic Codes are present. I'm sorry there is no procedure but here is a photo of a steering cylinder inner mounting with the bearing installed. It is not necessary to diasassemble anything, it simply needs someone to observe the steering cylinder at this point while the operator moves the steering from one side to the other. If there is wear in the bearing or the bore in the support bracket you will see movement where there should not be any.



As I see it if the operator complains that the steering event comes when he is travelling from one place to another the root cause could easily be mechanical or electrical, or even a combination of both.

 

[Nige]

Thinking a little more about it, if the E192 Steering Event comes when the machine is moving at speed, the cause could even be a wiring harness connector with a less-than-perfect connection in one or more pins that is losing conductivity because of vibration. Good luck finding that with the machine stopped.........

 

[Mustafa Kamal]

Dear All & Specially Mr. Nige. Thank you very much for your valuable feedback, guidance. With great regards.