Case/ bobcat 825 questions

[WILLIAM D HYMAS]

Sorry for the long post.
I am helping a friend with her 1978 case/bobcat 825. It had a no start issues about two years ago. The starter was burned up and it sat until this summer. I was asked to put a starter on and see if it would start. When installing the starter i found a bad pos. Battery cable and the battery was bad it was not charged for two years. So we replaced cable and the battery we tried to start. It acted like it was not getting fuel also it seemed to turn over slow and sometimes it would not crank. She had the injectors rebuilt. After installing the injectors and bleeding the fuel system. It would spin over and try to run. After a few attempts to start the starter would not turn. I removed the timing mark cover and used a bar to rotate the engine. It was way tight but it would loosen up and crank with the starter. This would repeat several times. When it would fire up it would run for maybe 30 to 45 seconds and stall.
We also found that the right steering lever doesn't spring back to a neutral position.
1. Any thoughts on what could be dragging and locking up?
2. What would the best way to separate the engine from the pump to troubleshoot?
3. Is the hydraulic pump inside the reservoir?
Thanks for the input and help.

 

[alrman]

Welcome to HEF @WILLIAM D HYMAS

The model & year seem to mixed up here.....
Would this be an 1825? & are you sure it's 1978? Not maybe 1987?

Do you have a pictures of the machine or the engine, so we can be more specific in advice?

 

[WILLIAM D HYMAS]

It has a perkins 4.108 S/N 4958MA 17667

 

[WILLIAM D HYMAS]

I dont have any of the engine or whole machine. I will get some. I do have a picture of the tag w/model and S/N.

 

[alrman]

AH, it's a Clark .... not a Case.....
I don't have too much experience on these, but if that travel lever is not centering, the pumps will be loading up pressure when you are cranking the engine.
Also, check if the foot pedals are stuck in an actuating position - look at the auxiliary hydraulic controls as well, if it has them.

It's possible that glow plugs maybe required to help light the fire in the cylinders..... just a guess on that one though.

I'm sure more help will come soon, a shame your post title isn't accurate - so as to draw the attention of some of the "Bobcat" guys - you never know though....

 

[WILLIAM D HYMAS]

Damm I can"t believe I put case not clark thanks for correcting me. It does have an aux pedal as far as I can tell all the pedals are in a off position.
It has a intake heater/glow plug that when 12v is sent to it it let's fuel in and lights it and pulls flame/heated air into the cylinders. I did not know what it was and found a video of it on a sailboat forum. I had to search the perkins 4.108 to find it. Thanks

 

[WILLIAM D HYMAS]

r to rotate the engine. It was way tight but it would loosen up and crank doesn't spring back to a neutral position.
1. Any thoughts on what could be dragging and locking up?
2. What would the best way to separate the engine from the pump to troubleshoot?
3. Is the hydraulic pump inside the reservoir?
Thanks for the input and help.[/QUOTE]

Sorry for the long post.
I am helping a friend with her 1978 case/bobcat 825. It had a no start issues about two years ago. The starter was burned up and it sat until this summer. I was asked to put a starter on and see if it would start. When installing the starter i found a bad pos. Battery cable and the battery was bad it was not charged for two years. So we replaced cable and the battery we tried to start. It acted like it was not getting fuel also it seemed to turn over slow and sometimes it would not crank. She had the injectors rebuilt. After installing the injectors and bleeding the fuel system. It would spin over and try to run. After a few attempts to start the starter would not turn. I removed the timing mark cover and used a bar to rotate the engine. It was way tight but it would loosen up and crank with the starter. This would repeat several times. When it would fire up it would run for maybe 30 to 45 seconds and stall.
We also found that the right steering lever doesn't spring back to a neutral position.
1. Any thoughts on what could be dragging and locking up?
2. What would the best way to separate the engine from the pump to troubleshoot?
3. Is the hydraulic pump inside the reservoir?
Thanks for the input and help.

Reposted with some corrections

 

[Welder Dave]

It has Perkins Thermo-start which is an intake air heater. Shouldn't need it in warm weather. An 825 was a good machine in it's day and would be a 1978. It was a little odd because it used a common reservoir for the hyd's. and chain cases but had a double filter set up. It sure sounds like something hydraulic is engaged.

 

[WILLIAM D HYMAS]

My guess is something to do with the right side control lever that won't return to a neutral position. But I do not know much about this equipment. Short of just draining the reservoir and poking around any thoughts on something to look at?

 

[Welder Dave]

Take some covers off and look at the linkage for the right side drive control. Compare the lever it attaches to at the pump with the left side. manually move it to the center position. I think an 825 uses a foot pedal for the aux. hydraulics but not sure. Check it's in neutral. Some Bobcats had the aux. control in the drive lever where you pulled it to the side for aux. hyd's. Check that too. Likely has a tandem pump set up coupled to the engine. Here's a service manual that should be a big help.

https://www.slideshare.net/HJSKENDM/bobcat-825-skid-steer-loader-service-repair-manual-97745447

 

[RustyNail]

Hello, i just purchased this same machine and i am looking for the service manual. Dave, would you mind sharing that link again?

 

[Welder Dave]

I forgot that I posted a link to something I found on the internet. That link doesn't appear to work anymore but there are lots of service manuals for sale starting at about $15. Some links have a review of several pages. I'd probably avoid Jensales and look for an original Bobcat manual. If there's something specific you're needing help with just post it and someone may be able to help you. The 825 was a good machine but an oddity in that it used a common tank for chain cases and hyd's. It did have double filtering from what I understand.

 

[RustyNail]

thanks for getting back to me. I am looking forward to getting into this machine and knowing more about it. I will for sure use this space if i run into any roadblocks. cheers.

 

[Welder Dave]

I'd say keeping up on hyd. filter changes is paramount. I'd suggest every 2nd or 3rd oil change. If the current filter(s) don't have a date or hours marked (assuming the hour meter works) I'd change them. Never a bad idea to change them anyway. It would also be good to do an oil sample to see if there's anything to be concerned with. It's a good idea on any machine but especially on a machine with a common reservoir for the chain cases and hyd's. I don't know if it's very easy for water to get in the chain cases. It isn't that hard on some machines.

 

[RustyNail]

funny you should bring this up. When i went to see the machine to purchase it he said that the engine ran but did not move. I was right away thinking water in the hydraulic fluid which will be the first thing i check. He said it moved and functioned before he parked it, so i do not have reason to believe there was any catastrophic event (unless he was trying to pull a fast one on me which i do not believe.....seems like a very honest trustworthy person). Thanks for the info on the reservoir on the common use. i will be in touch as this saga unfolds.

 

[RustyNail]

while i am looking for the manual, if someone had the wiring schematic and the hydraulic schematic that would be great.

 

[stefuel]

Hmmmm, Ontario, suspect water, temperature when tested, frozen???

 

[RustyNail]

all possibilities. rolling it into my shop tomorrow to start the diagnostic process.