Case 580CK oil questions

[Ruffasacob]

I've got a 1967 Case 580 CK that is pretty well used. I'm changing the oil in the drive line and need some basic answers. I've got a service manual for it but can't find what I need. There are 3 oil fill holes on the drive line. One in the very back over the differential. Does it want 90W gear oil in that? One other hole is a few inches in front of the shift lever. Does that take Case TCH oil? And one half way between the shifter and the bell housing. That may be the shuttle and I think takes TCH also. I'm I right in guessing the two top front fills go into the same space? Does anyone know what the capacities are? There is a dip stick on the differential so thats easy, but none on the other fills.
What I really need is an operators and maintenance manual to get answers to my basic questions. I'm still looking for the filter for the shuttle oil.

Thanks, Ruff

 

[gggraham]

580CK fluids and Filters Chart

Here are the fluid and filter charts for a 580CK

 

[Phil]

I use a Napa 1518 for the shuttle filter located in front of the radiator. I'm assuming you have a torque converter drive, not direct drive. The rear plug/dipstick on the differential cover is the transmission/ diff oil fill. I use #80-90 gear oil, I believe EP is the correct designation, as seen on the chart, for hypoid gears, correct me if I got that wrong. #90-140 is very thick below freezing temperatures.

The plug on the right rear corner of the shuttle cover, a few inches in front of the gear shift, should have a dipstick attached to it. This is the fill point for the torque/shuttle compartment. I don't recall any fill plug farther forward on the 580CK torque tube, unless you are referring to a plug just behind the starter, for timing checks. A picture would help us. I remember using a 20 liter pail if the torque converter was dry, or about 15 liters otherwise. I don't believe there is a drain plug on the torque converter of a CK or a B. There are 2 drain points for the shuttle/ torque housing.

I might have a CK operators manual, I will have to check. Phil

 

[Ruffasacob]

Thanks for the help gg and Phil. Here are a couple of pictures. One of my problems is I'm new to larger machines, (this is larger than my Ford 8N). So I'm not sure if I have a torque converter, or power shuttle. There is no external filter for the shuttle oil I see. None in front of the radiator, or one post I saw said in the steering tower. There are no lines coming out of the torque tube to route oil anywhere. Could it be under the shuttle cover?

Another problem with a tractor this old is that it has had many owners, and a great amount of changes have been made to it over the years. There are not many parts that have not been welded, broken, altered, jury rigged, removed, worn out, or monkeyed with. My apologies to the monkeys.

The pictures are dark but the unknown fill hole is right between the hydraulic lines and the rats nest of wires in the first picture. I don't think it's a view port because it's too far from the fly wheel. I'd like to know if it has a shuttle filter because when I drained the oil there was a lot of water and sludge that came out. Should I run some diesel fuel through it to flush it out?

The second picture is to show the controls it has and maybe help in knowing what features this tractor has.

Thanks for your help. It is greatly appreciated. Ruff

 

[Phil]

It looks like the mechanical shuttle; your engine will stall if overloaded. I believe the lube chart posted would be correct for both shuttles. Thanks gggraham for posting that.

Cheap hydraulic oil makes a good flushing oil. I don't use diesel fuel for fear of it loosening any debris that has settled and is stuck to the bottom of the compartment. It looks like the mechanical shuttle has it's own compartment for oil too, but I will still check that operators manual if I can find it.

I had a direct drive CK once, very efficient machine. Here are pictures off CNH, of both shuttle cover types. Phil

 

[Ruffasacob]

Is there such a thing as cheap hydraulic oil?
I have to chuckle as I've read other posts and seen pictures of other tractors. Most of them are painted nicely and are neat and tidy. I'm not kidding as you can tell from my pictures that there are not a lot of areas on my tractor that have not been altered some how. I'm surprised no one has razzed me about my custom steering wheel.

Thanks alot Phil for your free giving of knowledge and experience. You'll never know how many people read old posts and get needed answers from you. But know it is greatly appreciated.

 

[Phil]

Wal-mart has the cheapest hydraulic oil here at $39.99 Can. a 20 liter pail, the TDH oil is the same price, as is the motor oil. I think it was $29.99 last year for hydraulic oil.

It'd hard to find a used Case steering wheel in good shape, sometimes harder to pull it off. I see the B model wheel(A65544) is $119 U.S. Phil

 

[skidoomanott]

1970 580ck

The Case dealer in my area has not been helpful at all. Can someone tell me where to fill the hydraulic system? There are what appears to be 2 fill plugs on the top of the bucket arms. Case dealer told me there should be a dipstick but there is none. There is what looks like a drain plug on the side of the bucket arm. Do I open that and fill from the top and when fluid comes out the plug on the side it is full? Do I fill from both spots on the top of the arms? Thanks

 

[Phil]

Skidoo,
What you refer to as the 'bucket arm', I call the loader frame. There is a left and right loader frame, both with vents at the top as they are both hydraulic tanks. These two frames(tanks) are connected at the front of the machine behind the radiator grill(pump intake hose) and at the rear with a return line. The left frame has a larger vent plug, that is the fill plug. No need to fill the other tank as it is connected.

The 1/4" pipe plug halfway down the frame under this fill/vent plug, is the level plug. Follow this left loader frame forward to where it bolts to the radiator 'guard' and you will find another 1/4" pipe plug. This plug is for bleeding air out of the tanks as they are refilled after draining, or if the oil level is found to be very low. It's a good idea to check both tank vents occasionally and maintain them. Most hydraulic tanks breathe just like we do and suck in lots of dirty air, so I usually update the CK and B model vents with a slightly improved one. Phil

 

[skidoomanott]

1970 580ck

Thank you. One other question? With the fluid being low, will this make the backhoe hard to start? It seems to try and start then acts like the battery is dead. I did notice that if I turn the key the second time, the ground wire on the frame gets hot. Is it acting this way because the pump is sucking too much juice trying to pump what fluid is in there through the system? Thanks for everything

 

[skidoomanott]

fluid

I filled the hydraulic level and it is still acting the same way. It will start for a second when it is cold then stalls. When I turn the key the second time, it acts like the battery is dead but it is fully charged. The ground wire on the frame is still getting hot. Is it possible the starter needs attention. Today when trying to start it, sometimes it only clicks. Thanks

 

[Ando]

I'm not familiar with your model backhoe but if your leads are getting hot, I'd be removing and cleaning the lugs and attachments. Use a bit of sandpaper or a file on the mating surfaces to guarantee a good connection.
Bad connections will generate heat (or cranking the engine for 5mins at a time...LOL)

You may want to have your battery checked as well, sometimes they will read 12V, but under a load will fail.
Have your battery load tested if cleaning the connections doesn't help.
If all that fails....then look at your starter motor.

 

[skidoomanott]

starter

I pulled the starter off and it spins fine.No hesitation at all.The clicking I assume is the external coil, not the one on the starter. I thought it was the kill switch cable because I re routed it but I pushed it all the way forward by hand and it still acting the same way. Only thing I did since the problem has arised was change a seal on the valve for the backhoe. Possible that I put 2 hydraulic lines on backwards? I had to remove some hoses to get at the cap on the bottom of the crowd to lower the spool to change the top seal. Would that cause a starting problem? I am baffled. Thanks

 

[smokey1]

Try to disconnect the main hydraulic pump. The valve might be trying to drive a cylinder. and the overload is not releasing. The engine may not start with a load on it.

 

[Phil]

Skidoo,
Not sure if your engine is actually starting, then quitting, or almost starting , then failing to turn over fast enough. If your ground lead is getting hot, replace it. Make sure your new lead goes right to one of the 3 starter bolts. The click should be the starter solenoid, unless someone has added another separate relay. There is a separate relay on this engine above the starter but that is for the manifold heater and operated by a separate switch, only when needed.

On the solenoid, short the large and small terminals together. Both have leads going to them. Make sure the machine is not in gear. If it still clicks, then it's probably not your ignition switch or safety switch, or associated wiring. If the main leads and battery are good, then it's your starter solenoid, or starter. These solenoids are more known for problems as the flood of chinma parts comes in.

If in doubt about the work you did on the hoe, the two main hoses going to the backhoe attachment can be disconnected with the quick couplers and connected together, bypassing the hoe. Phil

 

[skidoomanott]

clicking

The clicking was there before the starting issue. I am more concerned as to why it is not starting. I had the starter off and it does not click when I powered it with a car booster. It spins and activates properly. There is no ground wire from the starter to the battery, only a ground from the battery to the frame. I am going to fix that issue. When I say it tries to start, I mean it will start for a brief moment when first trying it, having let it cool down overnight. Then it dies immediately and if I try to start it again, it is like the battery loses power after a few cranks and the ground wire on the frame gets hot.

 

[willie59]

Are you certain you have no ground cable going to engine? Without one, the ground has to travel through linkages, driveshaft, whatever it can find. Having a ground cable going to frame is fine, but you have to have a ground cable going from that frame ground terminal to the starter motor or your going to have problems. Does the machine drive the hyd pump off front of crankshaft? If so, simply disconnect the drive coupling temporarily that drives the pump and see if motor cranks and starts.

 

[Phil]

Might be easiest to take out the 4- 7/16" bolts holding the pump drive on the crankshaft pulley, if you decide to disconnect the pump. Phil

 

[willie59]

Yeah, that's the part Phil, thanks.

Take those bolts and rubber isolaters out and see if the engine cranks and runs.

 

[skidoomanott]

starting problem solved

This is my first backhoe and I am by no means a mechanic. With the help from the guys here I figured it out. The quick connect on the outlet hose coming form the backhoe valve came off. This must of happened when I changed the seal.
My next project is fixing the clicking noise when trying to start it. There is a solenoid on the starter which seems fine then there is the relay on the motor above the starter. Phil, I believe, mentioned it is for the manifold heater?There are no wires on the manifolds. Well the guy I got the backhoe from has the positive from the starter going to both sides of the relay, 2 wires from the positive on the starter. Then the ground is going to the relay. I am going to attach a ground wire on the starter directly to the battery. I believe the relay is working like they do on older Ford trucks. Thanks for all the help and I will update when the "clicking" noise is resolved.