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Case 580C Troubleshooting

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Jeff Munafo

New Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2021
Messages
4
Location
03042
I have a case 580c. When I go to start the unit, it draws down on a freshly charged battery to 10 amps or slightly less. It's my understanding that this unit needs 12 amps to properly turn over. A few days ago I was using it and installed as I was going to pick something up with it. I restarted it and it seemed fine for a while. Then later on that day it did the same thing installed when I went to pick something up with it. Again I started it and it seemed to be fine. The machine had been blowing black smoke for a few months which I now believe might be from over pressurizing of the fuel injection pump??? So yesterday the machine stalled, I went to restart it and it struggled turning over as if something was seizing and fighting the motor from turning over. After several attempts I got it started but I had to keep my foot on the gas all the way as it was struggling to stay running. Then it's slowly began the best I can explain seize up and stop. Eventually after numerous times of trying to start it, it sounded like it wanted to start but it just wouldn't. So today is when I put the booster pack on and when I got home I got it to start with the gas pedal all the way down and then it started to fight and slowly started to die within 30 seconds or less. I definitely have fuel at the injector pump. My question, is it possible that the fuel injector pump is seizing up and fighting the motor from turning over? I did break the the glass on the check valve just in case and to ensure it was not an issue with a blockage. At one point the engine just plain stopped as if it had seized and I would gather there is definitely something causing a seizure or slowing of the cranking process. But typically when an engine seizes it doesn't start turning over again, and certainly it doesn't start and run again in most cases with a mechanical failure. I mean I've seen it all and yes it's possible I suppose but my guess is it might be the pump for the fuel injector?? Any thoughts suggestions ideas as to my assessment, right wrong or indifferent??
 
D

Delmer

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Messages
8,891
Location
WI
No, you do not have an injection pump issue. Just assume that and start with the obvious stuff first. Your engine is blowing black smoke, stalling, fighting for life. That is not a starting problem, that is an engine running like crap problem. An engine running like crap will often be hard to start, coincidentally.

I don't know why your engine is running like crap. Is the oil level correct? does it have good oil pressure when it is running? Is the coolant level correct? has it ever overheated? does it use coolant and need to be topped up often? Is the smoking an even color and sound, or does it sound like some cylinders are running and some are not? If it starts again, a video of it running and stalling would be worth a thousand words, or you could get somebody with more old diesel engine experience to look at it, or you could try answering these questions and see what we can figure out.
 
J

Jeff Munafo

New Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2021
Messages
4
Location
03042
Oil level fine, coolant level fine.
It did overheat because the belt came off a few weeks ago but then I changed the belt. When cranking it frees up and then seems like it starts running without oil and stalls. The black smoke is now more like gray. I will send video asap
 
D

Delmer

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Jan 3, 2013
Messages
8,891
Location
WI
I can only tell you what I see. The engine is not starting. Hard to tell how it stalls from a video of it not starting. The starter sounds weak, the engine sounds like it's turning over on two cylinders easy and trying to fire on the third but doesn't have enough momentum/speed. Not sure what the fourth cylinder is doing? Don't know if that sound is just the weak starter, or internal engine damage?

Don't crank for more than ten seconds, then let cool for two minutes. If it doesn't start, chances are it's not going to at 20 or 30 seconds. Check the battery cables for voltage drop while cranking, might be a bad starter drawing too many amps, but you can at least check the cables for a bad connection. Voltage drop under load is the best way to check.

This may or may not be related to why the engine stalled. No way for me to tell without the engine running.
 
alrman

alrman

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
3,308
Location
QLD Australia
Occupation
Diesel Fitter;Small Business Owner;Cleaner
Welcome to HEF @Jeff Munafo
White smoke is unburnt fuel due to low compression.
You need to do a compression test.

Maybe a blown head gasket.
 
T

Tenwheeler

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Messages
870
Location
Georgia
thepumpguysc said:
It’s a long shot but try jerking the steering wheel back and forth when cranking it..
It works on j Deere..
Click to expand...
I believe this unit has a large hydraulic pump ran direct off the front of the crank. The steering has its own pump gear driven and mounted on the RF of the engine. Do not believe that will help him.
 
T

Tenwheeler

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Messages
870
Location
Georgia
You should be able to turn the engine by hand with a 15/16 socket on the alternator pulley nut. Have to push down on the belts with the other hand.
 
T

Tenwheeler

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Messages
870
Location
Georgia
I know my engine has been well used but it still has power equal to new I believe. With one hand pushing down on the belts the engine turns easy with one finger and my thumb pushing up on the ratchet. If yours is very hard to turn may need to look inside.
Starter on my never liked much cranking. As stated make sure all yours batteries, cables and such are good. Any excessive cranking like the bozo that ran it out of fuel but did not want to tell. That's a starter. KIMG0277.JPG
 
Coy Lancaster

Coy Lancaster

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2014
Messages
1,987
Location
Arkansas
Occupation
service tech
Hey Jeff first off welcome to the forum.
From what your video showed it sounds to me like there is hydraulic pressure on system and not allowing engine to turn over fast enough. One thing you can try is to disconnect the quick couplers from backhoe valve and connect them together. There should be a large hose going to stabilizer valve and one coming from B/H valve to tractor. Disconnect the one at stab. valve and connect it to tractor connector. Or you can pull hydraulic pump back enough to clear splines and see what happens.
Another question is there an auxiliary hyd. system that is electrically operated?
 
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