Case 580 Shuttle Drive Problem (Long Read)

[JedCase580SE]

I got a Case 580SE Backhoe a few months ago. It had almost no forward drive but reverse seemed fine. I did the pressure gauge checks in the manual and found the forward clutch pressure to be lower then reverse and figured that the forward clutch discs were probably shot. (Bad choice)
I removed the shuttle, disassembled it and found the discs did not look very bad but since I had bought the full rebuilt kit I redid everything. I was hoping the discs were bad enough that they were the problem.
Now I have it all back together and running and still no forward.
I am going to put the gauge back on it and see if the results are any different. What else should I do?? I have already decided I am probably going to have to pull the shuttle again and see if there is something that I missed. I hate doing this again but I think it has to be something in the shuttle.

Also, there are no wires on the solenoid cutout so I figured it’s not the problem.
Any ideas will be great.
Thanks

 

[JedCase580SE]

I have done all of the pressure tests and they all look good. All of them are a few pounds higher then before and tests 3&5 and 4&6 (forward & reverse clutch circuits) are exactly the same now where 3 & 4 were both lower before I rebuilt the shuttle.

I have no idea why I have no forward motion. I guess the next step is pull the shuttle again.

 

[Tinkerer]

Find where those solenoid wires are and check the ends of them for making contact. Floor cutout switch been ruled out as a problem ?
Not a linkage problem ? Going fully into forward position ?

 

[JedCase580SE]

There are no wires going to the solenoid body at all. Yep, I have checked the linkage and it is going all the way.

 

[JedCase580SE]

I might be doing the clutch circuit pressure test on the wrong port. I have been removing the 3/8” pipe plug on top. I see there is a 1/8” pipe plug next to it. (It seems to be seized and will not come out).
Am I using the right port or is that part of my problem?
Thanks

 

[Tinkerer]

Do you need the pressures parameters from the service manual ?

 

[JedCase580SE]

I have the service manual and that’s what I used but I’m not sure that I connected the pressure gauge to the correct port. I used port #13 because #12 is not coming out (see pictures)

 

[Tinkerer]

Hit #12 with a hammer a couple of times it will come out.

 

[JedCase580SE]

Do you think that’s the one I need to connect to?

 

[JedCase580SE]

I think I might be able to use #24, (see picture) I think it is on the same line as the test port.

Also, is it possible that the Control Valve is screwed up? Do they give problems?

Thanks

 

[Tinkerer]

I think I might be able to use #24, (see picture) I think it is on the same line as the test port.
Also, is it possible that the Control Valve is screwed up?
Do they give problems?
Thanks

It is clearly shown in the service manual Jed.
Yes, the piston can cause problems.
Page 6202 - 7 shows the forward (direction) oil flow along with the test port.

 

[JedCase580SE]

I think I will pull it apart and take a really close look at the pistons. I am guessing (hoping) that it is the problem.

Thanks

 

[JedCase580SE]

I have the shuttle all apart and everything looks perfect. I have double, triple checked all of the o-rings, seals, clutch discs and I don’t see anything wrong. I guess I will put it all back together, put it back in the backhoe and try the pressure tests again. Hope for different results?? I think this is the definition of insanity!!

 

[JedCase580SE]

I have been reassembling the shuttle and found a lot of marks on the inside of one side of the Forward Clutch Ring Gear. Does anybody think this will cause a problem?

I am not sure what it came from either. The Cylinder and Piston assembly doesn’t appear to have marks on the outside.

Thanks

 

[alrman]

Those machine marks on the inside of the ring gear are visible in most I've ever seen - perfectly normal.

The snap ring in picture #1 acts as a spacer & should measure between .090" - .093" - is that how yours is?

The assembled clearance for the clutch pack (dry) - I usually set between .025" - .030" - yours is how much?

 

[JedCase580SE]

Yep, .093 thick on the ring and about .035 clearance on the clutch pack.

I was worried on the marks because they are only on one side but I guess nothing in there moves and the cylinder fits pretty tight so I guess it’s ok.

 

[alrman]

The 4 steel hook/seal rings are OK? Any wear marks in their working areas?
The 2 soft seal rings on the end of the mainshaft OK?

Fwd piston seals all still OK?

Is there any wear marks on the main housing where the FNR control lever stops hit the housing? - sometimes these wear & the control valve over selects the oil ports.
Is there any grooving in the bore for the control valve?

There is a small expansion plug on one end of the mainshaft - still in place & tight?

You may need to post more pics of different parts - we just may randomly see something....

I have to ask this - when you are attempting to drive the machine you were in first or second gear?

 

[JedCase580SE]

All new seals and rings.

I’ll have to look on the inside of the housing where the control valve goes and see if there appears to be any wear.

The expansion plug is there and I blew air through just to make sure it was all clear.

Yes, was using first gear. Before i rebuilt the shuttle it would move a little in forward if you revved it but it felt like it was slipping really badly. After rebuilding, I seemed to have ok reverse and no forward. If I put the trans in neutral the driveshaft turned slowly in forward and spun really fast in reverse.

 

[JedCase580SE]

I don’t see anything out of the ordinary on the Control Valve Body or in the housing where it lives.
Here are a few pictures.

 

[alrman]

Could we see some pictures of the charge pump - dismantled.
Curious if you replaced the torque converter / had it rebuilt?

Reverse piston was installed with smooth side of piston facing into the carrier?

The control valve plunger operation usually has a "double click" sound as the outer plunger strikes the inner dump valve - is that how yours feels/sounds? Just thinking if the solenoid has not been working for a long time, the dump valve maybe sticky.

Also what were the actual pressure readings you got while testing?