Case 350 Crawler kicking my butt

[Tyler d4c]

I don't plan on rebuilding the pump myself. I used to be a dealership mechanic, rebuilt engines, automatic transmissions, manual transmissions, steering gear boxes, transfer cases, axles, performances engines and transmissions for me and my friends but I've never cared for Diesels. I had to replace a turbo on a 2007 or 2008 diesel Grand Cherokee with a Mercedes 3.0l diesel and a turbo on a 6.7l cumins, after those 2 jobs I've sworn off Diesels. I just don't like anything about them. I've watched a ton of of these roosa master rebuild videos and I'm about 70% sure I could do it but i don't think I will.

I'd think you could with that back ground if I ever have one to do for myself I'm going too. I wont risk it on someone else's till I try it for my self

 

[thepumpguysc]

Hi Fellas.. I just caught-up on this thread.. U said it "was" popping the injectors.. is it still??
U said it "was" running & then it wasn't.. I'm assuming that was after u put it together..??
I was going to suggest the pump being on 180* out of time.. it would still pump fuel at the injectors, just on the wrong stroke..
Theres a DOT on the end of the drive shaft.. {the end that goes into the pump} & theres a DOT inside the pump itself.. the dots have to line up, dot to dot.. THAT guarantees your on the right stroke.{compression}
That's "IF" the drive gear is in correctly..

 

[frickenbored]

Hi Fellas.. I just caught-up on this thread.. U said it "was" popping the injectors.. is it still??
U said it "was" running & then it wasn't.. I'm assuming that was after u put it together..??
I was going to suggest the pump being on 180* out of time.. it would still pump fuel at the injectors, just on the wrong stroke..
Theres a DOT on the end of the drive shaft.. {the end that goes into the pump} & theres a DOT inside the pump itself.. the dots have to line up, dot to dot.. THAT guarantees your on the right stroke.{compression}
That's "IF" the drive gear is in correctly..

No this tractor has never run again since the day last year that it gave up. One minute last year it ran and the next minute it didn't. It shouldn't be 180 off because the injection pump has never been taken off this engine.

 

[DMiller]

Then it is time to take it off and to a pump shop.

 

[Flat Thunder Channel]

I typically like to take on the challenge of learning something new. Usually it ends one of two ways; man that was easier than I expected or oh crap I should not have tweaked that in this direction. Unfortunately sometimes the first one or two gets chocked up to the learning curve and I need to re-work or fix something. I have not tried rebuilding an injection pump or injectors yet, but would not be afraid to give it a go. The only caveat is if it was readily available on the cheap then I would just pay the expert and or exchange for a replacement.

Story regarding an unrelated part, but similar circumstances. The repair or send off to an expert scenario. Our old family boat was running rather poorly. I keep thinking it was a fuel issue and early in the game sent the carburetor to an expert of yesteryear. It was a quadrajet ('quadrajunk'). I had no previous knowledge or experience rebuilding a carburetor from a larger V-8 engine. It came back stamped with the 'a-ok' from the expert and I tested it on the boat.....It exhibited exactly the same systems. Fiddle fiddle monkey with several other items all season and it still reacts the same and feels fuel related to me. Took carburetor off and returned to the expert to once over double check it again. It came back and the process repeated. Fiddle fiddle monkey around. We stumbled across an old quadrajet carburetor on a shelf at the marine store. No one wants them so we picked it up on the cheap. I followed the directions found online to disassemble and clean all of the internal components. It was gummed up from lying on the parts shelve for years. I reassembled the carb and did a sea trial. Tada! It was the carburetor the entire time! I disassembled the original carb and noticed the jet needles on the secondary were rather blunt. I think they were worn and or damaged over the years. Ever since this experience I question the experts unless the repair requires specialty equipment I usually try it myself.
Did you try adjusting the bypass regulator as suggested by JD1234?

 

[frickenbored]

I typically like to take on the challenge of learning something new. Usually it ends one of two ways; man that was easier than I expected or oh crap I should not have tweaked that in this direction. Unfortunately sometimes the first one or two gets chocked up to the learning curve and I need to re-work or fix something. I have not tried rebuilding an injection pump or injectors yet, but would not be afraid to give it a go. The only caveat is if it was readily available on the cheap then I would just pay the expert and or exchange for a replacement.

Story regarding an unrelated part, but similar circumstances. The repair or send off to an expert scenario. Our old family boat was running rather poorly. I keep thinking it was a fuel issue and early in the game sent the carburetor to an expert of yesteryear. It was a quadrajet ('quadrajunk'). I had no previous knowledge or experience rebuilding a carburetor from a larger V-8 engine. It came back stamped with the 'a-ok' from the expert and I tested it on the boat.....It exhibited exactly the same systems. Fiddle fiddle monkey with several other items all season and it still reacts the same and feels fuel related to me. Took carburetor off and returned to the expert to once over double check it again. It came back and the process repeated. Fiddle fiddle monkey around. We stumbled across an old quadrajet carburetor on a shelf at the marine store. No one wants them so we picked it up on the cheap. I followed the directions found online to disassemble and clean all of the internal components. It was gummed up from lying on the parts shelve for years. I reassembled the carb and did a sea trial. Tada! It was the carburetor the entire time! I disassembled the original carb and noticed the jet needles on the secondary were rather blunt. I think they were worn and or damaged over the years. Ever since this experience I question the experts unless the repair requires specialty equipment I usually try it myself.
Did you try adjusting the bypass regulator as suggested by JD1234?

I'm the same same way, before going to school and actually becoming a certified mechanic I would always try and fix my own stuff, usually failing the first time but eventually getting it right...enough. In high school I pretty much rebuilt a clapped out 88 k5 blazer with a Chilton manual, the local junkyard and a set my grandpa's half broken craftsman tools because I was dirt broke.

In the case of this pump I can't believe how expensive they are. New ones are damn near $2000, I'm pretty sure the machine as a whole isnt even worth that much. This is why I stick with gas engines...if my old Chevy needs a new mechanical fuel pump it's like $12 or I might even find one in the ol garbage pile.

Anyway, today I filled the case full of oil again and adjusted that bypass regulator to about 50% open. I noticed that when I cracked the injector lines it seemed that the fuel was squirting harder than before but she still didn't start up.

Does anyone know of a fuel pressure test gauge that I can buy and hook up to this pump? The sticker on the valve cover says the pump needs to make 2800psi to fire the injector. I would just really love to see some concrete evidence of what's broken on this thing.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Send it to me & I’ll send you a picture of what’s broken..
A pump rebuild thru a shop costs around 600.-800.00..
I’m not saying that’s what it needs, I just saw the post about pump costs..
I recently retired from 30+ years rebuilding pumps at a fuel shop & help folks out when asked.

 

[thepumpguysc]

1 more thing.. I wouldn’t go adjusting anything w/o putting a gauge on it FIRST. But.. a gauge isn’t gonna help if the pump/engine won’t start.
& adjusting the pressure regulator can seize the pump in a NY minute.!!

 

[DMiller]

Guessing experimenting and throwing good money after bad just gets MORE expensive. Gasoline is outdated and unless willing to drain and run until fuel systems are dry these days, a machine that sits often will have equal or worse issues as old mechanical diesel.

 

[jd1234]

frinkenbored

Some more detailed DB Roosa Master pump material to review....

Link to DB Roosa Master IP Service Manual
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1QICQG0Nz6NuURSVR2F3uvTnRn_zT7r3B

Link to bristol screw bit and bushing (the correct tool to remove timing screw/less likely to break the screw off)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rCp8BcpT-vAsizxeVIrQpN9BnXwgYwpY/view






Some sample prices: usdiesel.com
>>Stanadyne 2018 prices usdiesel.com
>>Part Numbers QTY Cost
Seal Kit >>24371 in stock $ 26.78 1 26.78
Pilot Tube >>16320 in stock $16.28 1 16.28
Solid damper >>29111 1 61.33
Bristol Pin bit >>24992 in stock $ 20.83 1 20.83
Bushing >>21178 in stock $ 21.69 1 21.69

 

[Fourtencustoms]

" I'm pretty sure the machine as a whole isnt even worth that much. This is why I stick with gas engines...if my old Chevy needs a new mechanical fuel pump it's like $12 or I might even find one in the ol garbage pile."

I am not so sure about that.
I paid $9500 for my 1973 Case 350 dozer last summer and I was happy to do so, To find a small dozer with 6 way blade and metal tracks that runs and drives under $10000 is not an easy task, I looked/researched and shopped for a long time before I found my unit. Of course mine starts, runs and drives, but it still needs some work since its from 1973! There is no 4 cylinder gasoline engine of this size that will do what this little case diesel will do....no way no how. I work on both gas and diesel, diesel is worth the extra $$$ for parts....its the labor that is expensive, which is why we learn to DIY
Injection pumps can be intimidating but often you do not have to do into the pump very deep to find your issues (air leaks) Many times it is just old cracked and worn out O rings at the connections leading into the pump.......

I can sell my Case 350 for more then I paid for it if I wanted to........these machines will always be valuable
That is why there are so many members here watching this thread. You saved this machine a few times already, what is once more? She will run and when she does this will all be worth it.

 

[frickenbored]

Well I haven't decided 100% what I'm gonna do with the pump yet but here in Michigan we're only getting one rain free day during the 3 day weekend so I'm going to remove the pump from the engine.

Are there any tricks to this? From what I understand cylinder 1 needs to be set to 8 degrees past TDC on the compression stroke, that way the timing marks in the pump window line up. I also saw a YouTube vid where the guy mentioned you need to tie the throttle back when you remove and install the pump. And how is it held onto the timing gear? Do I need to pull the timing cover off? I've seen some versions of this pump with a big nut on the end of the driveshaft. Thanks in advance guys.

 

[frickenbored]

I did it again...I meant 8 degrees before TDC, duh

 

[thepumpguysc]

U dont have to worry about tying the throttle when removing if your doing a tear down of the pump..
U DO have to tie it back after the rebuild & upon installation IF u left the drive shaft in the engine..
The only problem I can think of on the removal is, the bottom back nut closest to the engine..
Some pumps have 2 nuts holding them to the block, while others have 3, in a triangle pattern..
U have to bend a wrench into a "U" to get to it..

 

[frickenbored]

If I end up sending the pump out is it better that I take the driveshaft out too? Its not a huge deal to remove the radiator, and it looks like the injection pump gear has a separate timing cover bolted to the main timing cover.

As for the wrench I have a strange set of U shaped wrenches that my grandpa brought back from France a long time ago. That's what I used to loosen that nut when I adjusted the timing of the pump last year.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Most of the time its easier to fight w the seals, w the dr. shaft left in the engine.. than it is trying to get the dr. shaft out of the engine..
99% of the Case pumps I do, do not come w/ the drive shaft.. {if that tells u anything}

 

[frickenbored]

Alright so I got the pump off, I went the route of removing the radiator. It was just easier to see all the timing marks and the whole job only took me an hour. So right off the bat I found some suspect things...

So I tore down the motor to the pump gear and spun it over to 8 degrees before tdc..I didn't remove the valve cover to look for the compression cycle because if the timing marks on the crank pulley, the pump gear, and the pump sight window all line up then obviously it's TDC compression since this engine used to run. Here's when I found out this pump has been out before (at least over 20 years ago though). I lined up the crank pulley marks and the pump gear mark but the mark in the pump window wasn't there. After spinning the engine over again the crank pulley and sight window marks lined up and the pump gear was 180 off. After I took the shaft off the pump I saw the dots were opposite each other so as far as I know the shaft was in 180 off, doesn't look like it mattered tho.


The gear mark was 180 off from that pointer.



These two dots were positioned opposite of each other I believe they are supposed to be on top of each other.


Marks lined up

Cont...

 

[frickenbored]

That's the mark that was 180 off


Found a crack in the pump gear so that's junk.


That bushing is garbage

Cont...

 

[frickenbored]

Found a tear in this seal but I think I did that when trying to put the shaft back in the pump.



And there she is, what is quite possibly the bane of my existence. If she doesn't run after all this I'm gonna plant some trees and flowers around her and have a nice lawn ornament/memorial.

Any opinions on what I found so far?

 

[thepumpguysc]

If the person that rebuilt the pump many years ago.. put the weight cage on the pump 180* out,, u would have that problem.. U wont know until the pump is torn down.
I think WAAAAYY back on pg.2 I tried to get u to line up the lines in the window & check the timing marks on the flywheel.?? no matter..
At least u found a problem & the cracked gear..so all was for-not..
Keep goin.. your almost there.!!!