Blowing snow with 95XT and 7424 Blower

[Kobe130]

Just starting to work mating the Case 95 XT to my Buhler 7424 stage 3 snowblower. This blower is hydraulic with electrical controls. I bought this 95XT because it seems a perfect match for the blower - 40 GPM hi flow pump deluxe heat in the cab etc. It has the 7 pin electrical connector but there doesn't seem to be a reasonable way of mating that to the blower controls. Looks like the 95xt has 2 switches by the heater controls that operate with the 7 pin connector. Wondering how others set up this type of attachment. The blower comes with a magnetic base joystick you just plunk in the cab and hook up to the blower and then to 12 volt supply. Maybe that is the easiest thing to do. The 2 functions electrically controlled on it are of course chute deflector and chute rotator. Ideally it would be really slick to be able to control the 2 functions with the buttons on the right joystick. Any thoughts on this? Thx!

 

[KSSS]

If you have aux. switches on you control levers, you can make the snow blower plug and play to the switches. That is how I have my Erskine running off of my 465. You may have to change the leads going in the snow blower connector to match the electric plug on the 95XT. The 95XT will kick snow like you have never seen from a skid steer. Lets see some pictures of the set up.

 

[CRAFT]

I just went thru the whole thing last year when I got a New Buhler 8424.

You will firstly need to know if the 7 pin connector (on your Case) is using 12v signals, not like my BC's 7-pin connector where you need an ACM unit to translate the commands used out of the 7-pin and have the exact wire diag that tells you what each pin does on the machine

I luckily was able to purchase the extra 14-pin attachment control kit (it was plug'n play) from BC which allows you to connect to just about any brand X attachment, or the older BC attachments using 12v commands

The next thing ... you will have to build your own wire harrness. That is not as hard as it sounds, you only need the same 6-pin connector that is on the blower already (available at any auto parts place like Napa) and also about 7-8' of 6 wire trailer cord. In your buhler manual there is a wiring diagram, in there they show that you will need to have some diodes in the harness, they put the diodes in the magnetic control box with the 2 toggle switches, so what I did was add a water proof plastic box c/w the compression ftgs (septor plumbing supplies) on the blower that you can do all of the connections in and add the diodes as well.

Don't know what your 7-pin connector looks like but probably is a Deutsch connector, and you may be able to buy it from your Case dealer.

I did NOT cut and hack the original harness to salvage the parts from I kept it all intact so that I had a back-up plan if all thing failed on the Skid, I made it so it was a simple plug'n play set-up

If I ever figure out how to post pics again .... I would .... but if you Pm me your E-mail I will send you some of the pics I took as I built the harness, it is neat and tidy looks OEM

Let me know? .... Good-luck ....GK

 

[skidsteer.ca]

I tapped into the switches on he LH control of a bobcat and made my own harness up and also used that 4 switch setup on my NH as well.
Both loaders had 7/8" pipe for a steering lever so the switch fit right on top with little modification. That part from Bobcat was @$120 It has momentary up/down and momentary right/left switches plus 2 other on/ off switches, and is standard on all the G series and newer loaders without pilot controls.

I then wired the switches to spdt relays so the switch would only have to control the relay, switch about .1 of a amp and the relay would switch the 8 or so amp the coil on the blower draws. This makes the switches last a long time, relays are cheap and easy to change, also very durable, making for a reliable harness.

It is much nicer to have the switch on the steering lever plus in a small cab it makes the instalation neater too.
Skidsteer.ca

 

[Kobe130]

Thx guys, very much appreciate the comments. As snow removal time is upon us I'm going to be using it as is for now. But it sounds like it's preferable to have controls on the xt joystick. Soon as I finish maintenance on this XT will have to start planning how to do this taking into consideration your comments and what is currently on the RH stick. I'd like to see the pix - send to "bdsumner@hydro.mb.ca" Thanks a bunch looking forward to seeing them. Like the idea of relays I have a bunch of new DC Omrons sitting in the shop. As this machine is basically going to be my snowblower it looks like it will be worth it to modify. Was out at our CaseCE guys yesterday - they're not familiar with the electrical hookup (at least in Parts) so its really helpful to get info from those who've done it before.

 

[skidsteer.ca]

I'm doing a blower install on a Bobcat where I will be building a wire harness, Ill try to take some pictures. WSe don't need any diodes but your situation might. It is easy to do and i like it better then the 7/14 pin Bobcat combo harness I put on my 185 They out smarted themselves on that one and it turned out to be a piece of junk for running some attachments.
I'll actually be in your fair city Mon, only 3 hours from here.
Skidsteer.ca

 

[JGS]

Kobe130 I assuming you were referring to 7424 series-3 when you wrote "stage 3". If so you might want verify your high flow gpm's of your 95XT and the blower. Did the dealer set you up with the blower? Sounds like the flow rate of your 95XT might exceed your blowers specs. I recently upgraded the hydraulic motors on my Buhler 7422 series-2 to a series-3 to accommodate high flow on the new CTL I purchased. I went from low flow 18 gpm to a high flow 29gpm. After speaking with the tech people at Buhler, they recommended the series-3 hydraulic motors for the upgrade. I attached a chart from Buhler showing the recommended flow rates for each series.

Hydraulic Snowblower Fan RPM to GPM Rating
Series I 13 – 17 gpm 2000 psi min. (6.2 cu.in./rev)
Series II 16 – 22 gpm 2000 psi min. (8 cu.in./rev)
Series III 20 – 26 gpm 2000 psi min. (9.6 cu.in./rev)
Series IV 24 – 32 gpm 2000 psi min (11.9 cu.in./rev)
gpm x psi = hp

 

[KSSS]

Kobe130 I assuming you were referring to 7424 series-3 when you wrote "stage 3". If so you might want verify your high flow gpm's of your 95XT and the blower. Did the dealer set you up with the blower? Sounds like the flow rate of your 95XT might exceed your blowers specs. I recently upgraded the hydraulic motors on my Buhler 7422 series-2 to a series-3 to accommodate high flow on the new CTL I purchased. I went from low flow 18 gpm to a high flow 29gpm. After speaking with the tech people at Buhler, they recommended the series-3 hydraulic motors for the upgrade. I attached a chart from Buhler showing the recommended flow rates for each series.



Hydraulic Snowblower Fan RPM to GPM Rating
Series I 13 – 17 gpm 2000 psi min. (6.2 cu.in./rev)
Series II 16 – 22 gpm 2000 psi min. (8 cu.in./rev)
Series III 20 – 26 gpm 2000 psi min. (9.6 cu.in./rev)
Series IV 24 – 32 gpm 2000 psi min (11.9 cu.in./rev)
gpm x psi = hp

Good point. The 95XT could be had with either a 3000 psi system or a 5000 psi system. The downside is according to the chart provided by JGS your machine will far exceed the gpm of any of the hyd. motors that are speced regardless of which system you have. Its odd that they spec 2000 psi since all current machines that I can think of are atleast 3000 psi.

 

[CRAFT]

KSSS ....... the chart posted is not totally complete ? .... 2000 psi is the min requirement, and the series 4 motors are the 6000 series Eaton/Charlyn motors, 112-1064 (almost exactly the same motors used on your Erskine) which handle up to 40-50 gpm especially how it is plumbed on the blower using the flow to supply both hyd motors at the same time on the blower.
(Ohh and BTW, I know some one is gonna come back and try and tell us that the manual says that it is a 104-1065, but that was a type error which I have already informed Buhler about)

But as JGS posted the series 3 motors are a little small (104-1064 max flow up to 25 gpm) for the max flow of the 95xt .... he could always throttle back on the skid, I did that with my first blower which used a 104-1064 (2000 series Eaton) for years .... to upgrade the blower motors to the 6000 series is way too expensive, the solenoid bank on the series 3 will not handle the steady flow, hoses, cross port relief, all are too small and will gen too much heat.

BEEN there ! .... DONE that ! ............ that's why I bought the NEW one. ........ cheers ........ GK

 

[JGS]

CRAFT, Thanks for the input. I knew you would jump in with your past experiences. You have some good inside working knowledge with these blowers.

I heard Buhler is making changes to their blowers for this year. Have you heard what changes or modifications might be?

 

[CRAFT]

JGS .... When I ordered mine it was a mix-up and the model which I thought was the only one came but not complete ? .... so another one was sent out to replace the first .... when it came it was a totally different blower cabinet than the first

What was different was the cutting edge was moved further back and now angled much like the cutting edge on a snow-blade .... the bottom of the auger had no bottom housing to cover it up.... there were no more rear skid shoes, but instead side mounted long adjustable skids which would probably act as a strenghtening to the outer edge and reduce wear ..... hmmmm

Well I chose to keep the first one, it was almost the same unit as my first PTO blower converted into a hyd driven skid unit called an Allied Buhler... it was only a 60" with widening wings on it up to 78"..... I got tired of opening the door to change the shute direction with the newer BC ..... thats when I opted to order the new Bigger Comercial unit from Buhler .... that was 2 yrs ago, the new style was already out then ... but now they finally updated the web site showing the newer style, (if you know what you are looking at you'll see that there are a few old pics mixed in) and now they call all of them Farm King Allied made by Buhler

If they are making changes this year I havn't heard ?? ... Other than the brand new web site format

Cheers ....GK

 

[KSSS]

ittI missed the min. portion of that 2000 psi requirement. I checked out the website on these blowers. I like the design, the biggest advantage is I see is the replaceable steel liner in the fan box. Mine is beat up and replacing it requires taking it apart, rebuilding fan box and putting it all back together. The valving by looking at it appears to be identical to the Erskine. This blower weighs a couple hundred pounds more than my 2400XL, which is a good thing. Downside is the issue you guys have fought is the lack of plug and play into the skid steer. Looks like they avoid the issue by using a separate control box. That would not be an option for me anyway. I am going to look into one of these.

 

[Kobe130]

Thx for pointing out the fact that it's a series 3 not stage 3. Perhaps a 3 stage snowblower would be the next step in innovating the conventional 2 stage! Wonder what it would look like? Heh, heh. I see the point about the high flow. My 95Xt has the gear pump without the pump throttle like the other aux 5000 psi axial piston pump has so I can not throttle the hyd flow other than reducing engine rpm. Don't want to do that as we want the full engine power for traction also. Originally I was going to run this blower in front of my Thomas 233HD but the quick'tach didn't fit and the pump was kinda small at 16.5 gpm I think. With 40 gpm and the series 3 blower motors will have to run a flow controller (I have a few 0-30 gpm variable Brand units, I suppose I could use 2 of them in a parallel circuit) to reduce output to 30 gpm for the blower and send 10 gpm back to the tank. No I bought these 2 units independantly - just imported the XT from Minnesota in the spring specifically to drive the blower. I would like to have the 2 functions controlled from the RH joystick so I will carefully study the comments here. I think I will give the engineers down in Morden (Buhler) a call and discuss the flow issue with them. Thx again.

 

[Kobe130]

For what it is worth I did talk with a Buhler engineer about the flow rate. He said that the ratings they give are typically conservative and suggested I go ahead and try the combination together before doing anything else. My XT has about 4500 hours on it so let's say the pump is a little worn and can only put out 35 gpm this is only 5 gpm above the rating. Guess I'll try it and see what happens. If the heating is unacceptable I'll have to put a flow controller on it. Anybody tried a larger turbocharger on the 4Bt to get closer to 100 hp out of it? Should be possible with a little more fuel too. As it stands it's 86 hp gross.

 

[JGS]

As Craft stated earlier, wiring the blower harness should not be a problem. I just converted mine over to a 14 pin connector. Was not to difficult. Talk to Buhler regarding your gpm's. That 95XT has some good flow not waste.

 

[KSSS]

Odd they dont spec a larger pump on a blower that big. The downside is you might generate heat, but worse would be blowing seals on the hyd motor or worse scattering it. On installing a larger turbo, the 95XT makes all the power you can likely use. You are making somewhere around 265 foot pounds of torque. The only wheeled machine to make more currently is the CASE Series 3 465 at 288. Impressive since the 95XT is at least 9 years old and still near the top in many performance criteria (cab comfort not being one of them).

 

[Kobe130]

But as JGS posted the series 3 motors are a little small (104-1064 max flow up to 25 gpm) for the max flow of the 95xt .... he could always throttle back on the skid, I did that with my first blower which used a 104-1064 (2000 series Eaton) for years .... to upgrade the blower motors to the 6000 series is way too expensive, the solenoid bank on the series 3 will not handle the steady flow, hoses, cross port relief, all are too small and will gen too much heat.

BEEN there ! .... DONE that ! ............ that's why I bought the NEW one. ........ cheers ........ GK

GK, sounds like you have direct experience with a series 3 running high flow? Did your setup cause a heating problem? If so I guess I can expect the same and I\ll have to use flow control.

WRT the controls I need to see if the Case CE guys offer a RH joystick handle that has 2 momentary SPDT switches included on it. That would be the cleanest installation. The current one on the XT doesn't. Then I will put together a harness to connect the 2 functions. Many thx for the ideas and explanations. Post or send pix if you can.

 

[KSSS]

But as JGS posted the series 3 motors are a little small (104-1064 max flow up to 25 gpm) for the max flow of the 95xt .... he could always throttle back on the skid, I did that with my first blower which used a 104-1064 (2000 series Eaton) for years .... to upgrade the blower motors to the 6000 series is way too expensive, the solenoid bank on the series 3 will not handle the steady flow, hoses, cross port relief, all are too small and will gen too much heat.

BEEN there ! .... DONE that ! ............ that's why I bought the NEW one. ........ cheers ........ GK

GK, sounds like you have direct experience with a series 3 running high flow? Did your setup cause a heating problem? If so I guess I can expect the same and I\ll have to use flow control.

WRT the controls I need to see if the Case CE guys offer a RH joystick handle that has 2 momentary SPDT switches included on it. That would be the cleanest installation. The current one on the XT doesn't. Then I will put together a harness to connect the 2 functions. Many thx for the ideas and explanations. Post or send pix if you can.

Relying on keeping the machine throttled back is a poor solution in my view, it lowers the flow rate and can cause plugging especially with the truck loading chute, it also lowers the cooling capacity due to higher load and lower engine speed. My Erskine motor will handle the 41.6 gpm that my 465 puts out, so far without issue (it was speced for those flows when I bought it. If Erskine can put a pump on their blower to handle these kinds of flows than certainly Buhler can as well and still make it affordable. I have three monetary switches on the 465 that controls my chute controls. You might be able to order 465 controls (off of a servo machine not the pilot controlled) and mount them in the 95XT. That might make the installation easier.

 

[CRAFT]

Not to be disrespectful KSSS ...... but the way I read it was Kobel owned the smaller spec'd BLOWER before he bought the Higher rated flow CASE

Erskine also builds smaller spec Blowers that will work on SMALLER Skids w/lesser flow that use the identical motors which Kobel currently owns

I HAVE taken a hyd flow meter and a hand held mechanical tach to measure the fan Rpm and to find out the exact max flow for the hyd motors at certain engine RPM's ... when I did this all I had to do is drop 400 engine rpm (in my circumstance)..... skid was still in the power torque curve, had lots of wheel power to propell and saved fuel hugely ...LOL.

The problem he is trying to solve is not to over drive the EXISTING blower motors to a point where it WILL cost him money when all fails, as I had happen with my last skid-steer when I spec'd a motor from an Erskine made blower a 2418 to be exact .... I copied the same Eaton 104-1065 that they used ... it cost me a ton of money to find out the hard way running my first Blower on my last skid not having the proper info

When he matches the flow rate of the skid to the motors on the Blower, Fan and Auger Rpms will be there and not plug the shute, it will just not have the torque and power that yours and mine have, resulting in a slightly slower feed rate and travel speed or Tons/hour

The original post was asking to know if someone had done a conversion on that type of blower to operate using Case's buttons in side the cab ...... Which I also have DONE (just not with a Case skid) with great simple success.

Just trying to help the guy out with bad and good experience I had.

On another Note KSSS ... a buddy of mine just bought my old Allied Buhler blower and I have to make it work on an old 1840 Case .... is it true that it produce only 16gpm aux. flow ? ......... if it is true, then its gonna be a challenge to find a small enough disp motor for the blower to make it work on his machine ....
Driven at 1:1 I will need to have a 5.9cu.in ... max 6.2cu.in motor to produce the min fan rpm at that spec flow rate
He is just using it for his own personal stuff.


Have a great winter making Frosty the Snow Man "HAPPY" ... when you Travel around with your Snow Blowers.

 

[Kobe130]

Thanks Lads, appreciate all the comments my post has spawned. I did buy the 7424 blower first for a good price then eventually realized it would be way too much work and result in a much less than optimal situation running it in front of the Thomas. With the comments here I think we can make the Case 95XT/7424 blower a decent snow removal solution for my 5 foot lakeside drifts etc. Way better than scoop and dump with either the 233 or the 580. If anybody has any pix of the joystick control with a couple of SPDT momentaries mounted on it or in it I would love to see it. Thx and happy snowblowing.