Anyone care to share experiences with biodiesel in heavy equipment engines?

[nonprod]

Hello All,
Although I've run B99 and B20 in a number of diesel engines, some built before 1992, some after, I've not run either in anything heavy except the other day I ran a 1978 D3 that a water district was trying to sell and they claimed they'd run B20 for quite sometime without issue, except maybe when someone ran the tank low and then it sat for months of disuse, possibly causing some gel and sluggish start.

I've heard rumors that I've never personally experienced, of pump seal degradation, general rubber line decay and certainly warranty jeopardy, but aside from seeing B99 melt an old Benz tank filler grommet, I've not seen these issues. Does anyone have any experience with Biodiesel in earthmovers, even just power issues with it, apparently a less dense fuel that petro-diesel? Of course the euphoric on biodiesel claim that it has great system cleansing properties, which sounds good, I guess, until something important melts....

TIA for your thoughts...

-gibbs

 

[Coaldust]

I’ve messed with bio, my fair share. The University of Idaho was on the cutting edge of bio fuel research and has a very nice manufacturing facility and engine lab for testing. During that same time period, I was working on my graduate degree at the U of I and teaching ag mechanics at LCSC.

Everything from rape seed, canola, soy beans, recycled cooking oil, raw vegetable oil, peanut oil. I was fascinated with it, at first. I made my own mini transesterification plant in my shed and mixed it 50/50 with diesel for my old Ford 7.3 IDI with an ATS turbo.

I’m kind of over it now. But, it was fun. It’s a PIA for me now that I’m in the fuel biz. B -whatever, doesn’t like nitrile rubber. It stratifies badly, absorbs water, corrodes the hell out of the bottom of aluminum saddle tanks.

An acquaintance of mine just designed a fish oil bio-fuel rendering plant and tank farm in Dutch Harbor. Fish oil B -blends have better cold weather properties.

 

[John C.]

Had a client that ran some kind of bio in a fleet of dump trucks for about a year in the early twenty teens. Found out his fleet of dumps could not pass the smoke tests done by the state. Went back to #2 diesel and won't talk about the experiment.

 

[Dozerboy]

I think depending on the regen everything is B5 or B10 now. I ran B100 it in my 06 GMC Duramax pickup. Never had any issues. Less power and less mileage. It definitely has some strong cleaning abilities. It bleached my Black LineX bedliner white where it had spilled a few times in the bed of my truck. I've never seen anything bleach those white. Anything B2 or more has great lubricity. I probably ran it for 5 years I don't bother with it no more it's too much hassle to get.

 

[nonprod]

Thanks for your comments all, fascinating. There is something of a religious experience to have engine exhaust smell like french fries instead of straight up 70s L.A. I had a minor joy in lying to irritating family members: "Sorry I couldn't make the get-together this year; the old Benz can't make it up your hill on accounta the vegetables in the gas tank."

I can get B99 in 5-gallon 'car-boys' or some sort of B20/80 veg/tallow blend easily enough at this point, but I haven't tried it in an excavator. I kinda couldn't tell how much founded or unfounded fear there is about ruining expensive fuel pumps and so on. I'd be happy to try fish taco exhaust, but I haven't heard of that approach near here.

 

[Nige]

Take Coaldust's comments on board. He does this for a living.
I would also suggest that unless you are burning somewhere in the region of a full tank of fuel a day on a day-in, day-out basis, (to keep the fuel in the tank "fresh") you should stay away from anything above the locally-mandated minimum bio content of whatever diesel fuel is available.

 

[nonprod]

Hmn, ok, I can see the logic therein... ...thanks.

Take Coaldust's comments on board. He does this for a living.
stay away from anything above the locally-mandated minimum bio content of whatever diesel fuel is available.

 

[JD955SC]

Haven’t heard much about biodiesel now that we are well into the common rail era.

 

[Truck Shop]

Everything from rape seed, canola

Was that in the mid 90's? Because around here at that time canola was a common crop then
disappeared practically over night.
But Washington allows 10% bio, Oregon 20% bio blend. At times I have issues with Davco primary
filters. You can tell it's Rape Seed because of the bright yellow color.

A friend Loren Wentland owner of Wentland Diesel injection pump service said the best thing that
happened for injection shops was bio-fuel. When common rail came along it hurt those businesses
but with all the old mechanical injected farm equipment all that was needed was a tank of bio
setting for 5 months in a Farmall and he suddenly was back in the game.

 

[Birken Vogt]

When common rail came along it hurt those businesses

I always figured they would start to adapt and service common rail stuff but what is the deal with that? Too manufacturer specific and nobody wants to deal with it? Nothing rebuildable in the injectors, pumps, etc.?

I know some small shops in Australia make videos showing quick work and easy familiarity with common rail systems used in pickups and cars that look very similar to our stuff but I have found nothing but big $$$$ OEM whenever I have to work on one.

 

[Coaldust]

Truck Shop,

That was 99-2002, era.

 

[Truck Shop]

Truck Shop,

That was 99-2002, era.

That would be about right-canola crops ended about that time.

 

[thepumpguysc]

I STILL see the aftermath of bio sitting in fuel systems..almost daily.
I get in pumps and injectors that have sat.. and every component that should move, doesn’t..
It’s gummed up so bad, most pumps have to be taken apart with a hammer and brass punch..
I haven’t found any product that will cut that goo.. so I’m left cleaning EVERY SINGLE PART BY HAND..( & brake cleaner)
I’ve heard bio fuel will clean bio fuel residue but I don’t wand that stinkin sh!t in my shop.. lol
Maybe 1day I’ll try it.??

 

[Coaldust]

Lol. There was local craze a couple years ago where raw veggy oil was a thing. Simple Valley Folk, resurrected old 6.2/6.5 and 6.9/7.3 rigs and found every last abandoned Volkswagen left in the state to burn restaurant oil in. You would see ragged out, oil burning chevys with plastic IBC totes running around with brown goo dripping off the tailgate and bumper. Lol. In the spring time, the oil burners were competing with the bear baiters for the precious liquid.

Side question, Do any of you fellas run bait stations? Bait your bears much, bro?
Wife and I took the AK ADFG class and got our bear baiting “license”. Never had time or the energy to try it.

The Covid lockdowns and restaurant closures put an end to it. Along with the Waste Management restaurant oil program sucking up all the prime restaurant oil for their Anchorage bio-diesel plant.

 

[Birken Vogt]

I have a friend that homsteaded a patch of rocks and brush with a little Onan diesel DJB genset for power, I helped him keep it running and also gave him many hundreds of gallons of used oil from my fleet at the time but he would also pick up used grease from restaurants and such, it was a shoestring existence with big challenges but it kept going until he wore it pretty much slick. The fry grease was definitely not ideal, clean-ish ATF was his favorite fuel in that thing, said it burned pretty much like diesel.

 

[Coaldust]

In these parts, the Lister Petter T series engines are the oil burner of choice.

 

[Birken Vogt]

There are a few of those around here but they seldom call me. I would love to have one myself but for now I have a modern tiny Mitsubishi 3 cylinder. A couple of years back we had a weeklong disaster and I ran short on diesel fuel and needed to keep the lights on, had some Warren universal tractor fluid I had never used and ran that about 50% until I could get a delivery in. The engine did not like that as fuel but it kept running anyway. I was kind of surprised about that since my friend's had run so well on ATF years ago. But it did run and keep the lights on and refrigerators cold to get through the crisis.

 

[Coaldust]

That’s awesome! I love those little indestructible third-world diesels.