Any advice on my 188 engine swap in the old ck would be appreciated

[Tinkerer]

I think he has it his kitchen.

 

[Funny farm]

You have a nice hardwood floor in your shop?

lol. Yes i do actually ha ha. It’s laminate click flooring but ya it’s kinda too nice for a shop I know. Was the only space I had. It’s a 24x30 “guest house” is hats separate from the house so I covverted it to my workshop. Unfortunately it’s raised about 4ft off the ground on hydro poles so getting engines and heavy things up the ramp to the door is kinda tough. Use what’s available right ...lol. Normally I only repair small engines and atvs etc in there. But it’s a dry place that’s easily heated in the winter for me to work on Things, and it’s all I have till I can afford to build a shop.

 

[Funny farm]

I really expected I would find an obvious reason for the engine not rolling over, when I pulled the oil pan off. The noise sounded like it was low in the front of the eng? Found nothing tho. Now with pan off the noise sounded like it was coming from behind the front cover, so I pulled some of them looking at the gears and such for damage. The way it locks up hard and u can feel and hear metal contact that’s solid and abrupt. If that makes sense lol. Just no give to it. I took the flywheel and kinda “ bumped “ against the spot that stops and it feels pretty solid whatever is stopping it . Other than the sudden stop after a full turn of the crank, it turns nicely and feels tight.. other than the one push rod being outta place ( but not bent) everything appears ok... could a lifter become that stuck? Thought a good twist of the flywheel against it would show some movement ..? And it will only go one revolution in either direction from where it stops?... starting to think it might be best off to pull the crank and rods outta this eng and rebuild the orig engine might be the way to go ?.. trying to get this old hoe running as cheap as possible .. but I’m deep enuf into it that I gotta keep going. Orig engine ran good till it knocked. Can I put the crank and rods in that block? It started well , didn’t have much blowby and didn’t smoke exceively lol. I know there is diff liner sizes but will cranks all swap?

 

[Delmer]

never mind, didn't read all the posts

Do you get almost 360 degrees of rotation? or almost two full turns? Can you hold it tight against the 'blockage" with the flywheel and go back to wiggle the rods to see if you can tell if one is tighter? Same with the timing gears, see if there's less play in any of the timing gears when it's held tight to the blockage than when it's loose.

The loose pushrod is suspicious, if that valve is retracted now, and not broken, I still suspect a something was holding it open and dropped into that cylinder now.

 

[Funny farm]

never mind, didn't read all the posts

Do you get almost 360 degrees of rotation? or almost two full turns? Can you hold it tight against the 'blockage" with the flywheel and go back to wiggle the rods to see if you can tell if one is tighter? Same with the timing gears, see if there's less play in any of the timing gears when it's held tight to the blockage than when it's loose.

The loose pushrod is suspicious, if that valve is retracted now, and not broken, I still suspect a something was holding it open and dropped into that cylinder now.

I can get almost 360* crank rotation. I will check the rods and gears for that when holding it against the “blockage”. Expected it to be more obvious since it’s such a sudden and hard stop.

 

[Tinkerer]

I would remove the head for a through look at it and the cylinders. Next would be removing the front cover. I would not be surprised if you have something in stuck in a timing gear.

 

[Delmer]

Is it stopped at TDC for either pair of pistons? That narrows it down to two to check.

 

[Funny farm]

I would remove the head for a through look at it and the cylinders. Next would be removing the front cover. I would not be surprised if you have something in stuck in a timing gear.

If I remove the ink pump with the cover and leave it attached to the cover will it come off and leave the seal in tact? Not sure where I could get the seal and or how to install them if removed. I believe ther s a seal on the inj pump shaft that has to be changed if removed ?? Umbrella seals or something ?

 

[Funny farm]

Is it stopped at TDC for either pair of pistons? That narrows it down to two to check.

I will have to look again to be sure but if I remember right. The middle rods were down and the timing marks were at the top left side ( standing behind the flywheel facing the front of the eng). Can’t remember if that was on the “obstruction” or not. I had to put the pan back on to set it down cause I am having some issue getting the engine stand i have to work on this engine. It’s hanging on a small engine crane that settles overnight so I finger tighten the pan on. And set it down. Hope to get a few nights this week to figure out how to mount it to the stand I have and dig a lil deeper into the “ obstruction “. Going to need to get a head gasket kit now too. Shoulda just ordered an in frame kit. It comes with all the gaskets and seals I have bought,along with everything to freshen it up.,and after buying the gaskets and crank seals separate...it’s not that much more to buy a kit ... does anyone recommend for or against a specific kit for the 188? Any I should stay away from or insist on getting ? Thinking my best plan now is to strip it down, clean and inspect it all and rebuild it. Had hoped to be able to just swap and be running. But looks like I might be tearing down two engines, taking the best parts from the pile, adding a rebuild kit to the mix and building one. Hopefully one of the heads is good and won’t need much if any work... this project is killing the budget and keeps getting bigger and bigger lol. Engine swap ends up being a rebuild anyway....:$.

 

[Funny farm]

Well I found the issue lol. Took the head off. Lots of garbage on the pistons. Rolls over and over and over now lol. Going to plasti gauge the journals before i say. But I’m pretty sure the crank is good. Lifters all move Freely so was just the piston hitting the garbage on top. I think the plan is now. Tear down the orig engine also. Use the head and likely the inj pump and most of the orig accessories. ( I know they all work well) use the crank and block from the new engine or just the crank and rods,... I’m not sure yet ? Get an in frame kit and a set of main bearings. Already have crank seals so no point in spending 200 more on the major kit since I think the only diff is it comes with mains and crank seals. So unless main bearings r over 200 bucks I’ll just get the in frame and use the best parts I have and cross my fingers lol. Anyone use the eBay engine kits ? Will price the parts from case but I’m guessing eBay will be cheaper. Just unsure of the quality etc ?? Anyway. Happy I found the issue. Happy the crank spins nice and feels good. Hopefully it measures good on the plasti gauge ans I can get an engine together that runs again lol.

 

[Funny farm]

 

[Funny farm]

After a quick cleaning.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Wow.. I never thought it woulda cleaned up like that..
You better take a long look at the tips on the injectors.. IF that crud stopped the engine from turning, chances are, it hit the bottom of the injectors..
IF the holes are collapsed even just "a little bit" it will build up line pressure & seize the injection pump..
Your not gonna be able to see the holes..but if you see that it hit.. replace the injectors..
& with all the expense your incurring.. you dam sure don't need to be buying a $1700.00 injection pump.

 

[Funny farm]

Wow.. I never thought it woulda cleaned up like that..
You better take a long look at the tips on the injectors.. IF that crud stopped the engine from turning, chances are, it hit the bottom of the injectors..
IF the holes are collapsed even just "a little bit" it will build up line pressure & seize the injection pump..
Your not gonna be able to see the holes..but if you see that it hit.. replace the injectors..
& with all the expense your incurring.. you dam sure don't need to be buying a $1700.00 injection pump.

Thanks pump guy. I think I’m going to use the complete head off the orig engine when I rebuild. I believe it will be in better shape and I know it ran well. Can I remove the injection pump from the housing without having to replace the seal ? If it has to be changed do I need any special tools to install it ?

 

[Tinkerer]

Here is a link to a human encyclopedia for anything made by Case. Dale has been super helpful to me and his prices are decent to. His engine rebuild kits are top quality. I have bought them from him.
http://e-backhoeparts.com/
Also if you remove the oil pump be aware that there are shims between it and the block. It critically important that you use them to set the pump gear back lash correctly with them.

 

[Funny farm]

Well with the help of a couple friends I was able to get the original engine into the shop going to tear down both engines and use the best parts from both and rebuild

 

[Gilbert603]

I've been following the thread. How are you making out Funny Farm?

 

[Funny farm]

Not much progress the last couple weeks. Been busy with other things and kinda discouraged with the ck. I have the original eng partially disassembled and also the new engine. Have a couple broken off bolts to remove on the original engine and u can then remove the head.
Thinking now I might just swap the crank and rods from the new engine into the orig engine with fresh gaskets and such but will see how the cyls look. May just order a kit and rebuild with the best of the parts I have and a kit. I accidentally removed the shaft from the inj pump so no I think I need umbrella seals and possibly a special tool to replace them? Maybe The pump guy can help me find the seals and tell me how to install them. I did manage to get most of my manual printed but haven’t checked it for how to change the seals on the pump shaft. I will post more when I have something to take pics of or to update. But so far not much changed. Still have two bad engines and a dead ck lol.

 

[Funny farm]

Had some spare time this afternoon so I was able tig weld nuts on the broken off bolt stubs and get them both removed. The one on the right side took two try’s but came out good.
Going to start pricing out the cyl sleeves and piston kits this week. Besides that I’m only missing the crank and rod bearings and the gasket set for the head. With the broken Bolts removed I can remove the head and finish tearing down the orig engine. Still haven’t been into the bottom end to see what was knocking. Hopefully the crank in the “new to me”engine checks out good and I can use it and the rods with new pistons and bearings, in the orig block. It ran well before it knocked so hopefully with a good crank and rods , along with a freshening up it will run strong for the remainder of its life lol

 

[Gilbert603]

I understand on getting discouraged but it sounds like you're still making progress. I have a 74 580B and the lower throttle linkage shaft broke in half. I've never worked on tractors before so the job was a little daunting. I had to remove the air cleaner, valve cover, fuel tank, etc to get into the steering column where the linkage is. After finding a few broken parts I wasn't aware of beforehand, trial and error, and at times doubting myself I got the old girl up and running again. The whole process was about a month, especially because some of the parts were hard to find. Just keep at it I suppose, you'll get it.