A few projects I have done recently

[AzIron]

Zero swings feel just a hair light in the rear and not enough to change anything

But a 320 has room to crawl in to work on most repair procedures on my 314 start with removing the counter weight cause there's is about 8 extra inches in the engine compartment and I have never seen a zero swing that was easy to work on

 

[skyking1]

That separator structure looks hefty, at least you are not down there marrying up the first joint in the hole that way. I've never been around a remote trench roller like that. These things seem regional in nature. I used to point the old school double rollers down a good trench grade and let them go, but nothing with a remote like that.

 

[DGODGR]

Ive never ran a zero tail swing machine before, but what is the main downside to them vs say a 320 or 323 in your opinion? Obviously you work in tight quarters a lot, but if a guy ran a 325 clearing trees, loading trucks, demo, etc is there a big drawback to them?

My 245G has great balance...a lot better than I expected. I often run a 5500# breaker on it (weighs 5,000#) and that's a bigger hammer than what might be recommended for a 20tn hoe (i.e. a 320 or 323) and it handles it no problem. I also run a 48" wide, 1.25 yard bucket (and our soils are not light) which it also handles well. The zero tails have the boom mounted farther back into the superstructure (which also helps to give it a tighter radius on the front), and they generally are heavier than comparable conventional hoes which both serve to counter the lack of counterbalance leverage. As an example, a Cat 323 (as it is commonly set up for my area) will weigh about 56k# and my Deere 245G (which is comparable to a Cat 325) weighs about 60k#.
I love working the machine as I don't have to worry about my a$$ hitting things when I swing. Coming from a Cat 315 I feel that I can do way more work in even tighter areas than the 315 could.
I think AZ hit the nail on the head when he talked about service headaches. My 245G only has about 1,800 hours on it so we haven't had to do any significant repairs yet. It is a pain to do normal services when compared to a conventional tail machine. The dealer had to R&R the turbo under warranty a while back. I didn't look to hard from my perspective (which was at a fair distance). The other draw back is the cab. Most of them have smaller cabs and/or cab entry than a conventional hoe (though the Cat 325 next gen claims the same cab as the conventional). My 245G definitely has a smaller cab than a 210 but I don't find it difficult to live with (accept the seat is not as comfortable as my 315 seat). There is no room for a lunch box or water jug in the 245. On that note there is no room for anything on the 245 for anything (i.e. tools, spare teeth, grease gun, etc.). On my 315 I have a box under the step that has wrenches, spare teeth and keepers, a 2# hammer, a grease gun, etc.) and I have other areas to keep an extra gallon of oil, anti-freeze, and a couple of lifting straps.

 

[Browning.270]

Thanks DGODGR for that breakdown! Il stop hijacking now lol

 

[CM1995]

The big drawback on the C model zero swings was the cab as it was much smaller than the 320C’s. The D series cab is much better, the F is very roomy and the new 325’s appear to be slightly bigger than an F.

I love these machines. I’d buy a 335 if we needed a larger machine. We won’t be buying a conventional in this size class or smaller.

The 321DL has over 7,800 hrs on it without a major repair. Services aren’t as easy as a conventional but not that bad either, very small price to pay for no ass swing.

 

[CM1995]

That separator structure looks hefty, at least you are not down there marrying up the first joint in the hole that way. I've never been around a remote trench roller like that. These things seem regional in nature. I used to point the old school double rollers down a good trench grade and let them go, but nothing with a remote like that.

Sky we wouldn’t know how to lay pipe without a trench roller. We’ve even built pads with them. Easy to transport and have a surprisingly hard hit. They are one of our most profitable pieces of equipment.

 

[skyking1]

I put it into Google and got a Sunbelt rentals link, put in my zip code and the closest one is over 150 miles away from me! Like I said they're regional LOL. Just like the crawler loaders they don't appear in the Northwest very much. I suppose there's times when a crawler loader is going to be bogged down where you're at, and I bet that length of time is much longer here in the soggy Northwest. The same probably goes for your little trench roller. Too gooey for it to go, and material that will just sustain a very light tap from a hoe pack that's tracks half full of mud.
In other words welcome to my world

 

[John C.]

It seems that plate compactors rule the roost in trench work out here. Most of the mini and midi excavators I look at that are doing utility work have quick couplers with at least two buckets and a plate compactor. I've never seen a trench roller or even heard of someone around here talking about them. I bet that if a few showed up and proved their worth in our soils, they would catch on pretty quick.

 

[skyking1]

The other thing is hardly anybody specs the concrete pipe that he's putting in. Everything out west seems to be plastic. More trench boxes and less wide open trenches. That's just an observation.
I seriously cannot recall the last time we did a commercial job that was concrete pipe unless it was really big stuff like 3'-8'

 

[hvy 1ton]

Just like the crawler loaders they don't appear in the Northwest very much. I suppose there's times when a crawler loader is going to be bogged down where you're at, and I bet that length of time is much longer here in the soggy Northwest

Both CM and I average higher rainfall than Seattle. Not sure about CM's area, but we get over a third of our rainfall between April and July 1st.

 

[skyking1]

So that doesn't explain it but there's certainly a missing link here there's just no crawler loaders around. I owned a little 350b Johnny 41 years ago, but I have run a 977 on a job in the 80's and that's it. I was using a brush rake with no top clamp, Raking up roots out of a golf course job.

 

[hvy 1ton]

I'm pretty sure it's the same reason you guys don't have trench rollers. Clay and lots of it.

 

[John C.]

In the Puget Sound area it is mostly sand and gravel until you get down the glacial till. Lots of places get plenty more rain that here. It's just that ours starts in October or November and usually doesn't quit until the end of March or middle of April. Then the weekend showers happen until the Fourth of July. It's usually dry then until October of November and then start over. Sunny days here happen occasionally, in short spurts enough to get hopes up and then it crushes you with three weeks of gray.

 

[CM1995]

Both CM and I average higher rainfall than Seattle. Not sure about CM's area, but we get over a third of our rainfall between April and July 1st.

I live in a temperate rain forest.... Our "dry" months are from Sept to Oct. Last year we had a very wet spring and early summer. This year we actually have had a Spring - we were wearing light jackets this week. I can't remember the last time I needed a jacket towards the end of April.

 

[CM1995]

As the Arena turns.

This is a change order to add some Nyoplast inline drains with pedestrian grates and 8" A2000 PVC pipe for the remodeled rear entrance.



Needed to rent a mini for this part of the job and wanted a 303.5 or 305 but all they had was a 306 in the pic above. Nice little next Gen hoe. It weighs in around 15K lbs which puts in a b*****d weight class IMO. It's too heavy to pull behind a SRW truck and a 14K trailer and not as big as a 308. Oh well it performed well and my guys liked it.

The existing roof leader piping is 6" concrete pipe, something from a bygone era.



We had to get creative to tie 8" A2000 PVC to 50 year old 6" concrete pipe. Yeah you read that right tying an 8" line into a downstream 6" line - we don't get paid to design it however we do get paid to install per plans.

Had to use a mission coupling designed for a transition from clay to PVC to tie into the concrete pipe. It worked with some persuasion is all I have to say about that. Bell end of the existing 6" concrete pipe, they did a good job of mudding up the joint. 8x6 PVC tee and 6" concrete pipe.



8 to 6 tie in. The concrete pipe looks bigger but it's just an optical collusion, the OD's are different diameters. See the pic above.

 

[CM1995]

Nyoplast inline drains this size are not that aggravating to set like the larger diameter basins. We call them Gumby's for obvious reasons, you younger guys won't get that reference.



That 306 is a fuel sipper. Ran it on eco mode and only burned a 1/4 tank trenching in two days.




Inline drains installed inline.. The GC brought one of their road plates over to bridge the newly installed pipe as this is rear entrance is a main access point for the finish trades on the main level so there is a tremendous amount of Lull traffic - hence the traffic drums. Regardless of trying to fool proof it we'll get a CO to repair at least 2 of the 6 drains.



Slicking up the grade with a little trench roller action.

 

[AzIron]

Why rent a 306 and not just use your backhoe

 

[CM1995]

The 420 is currently disassembled for an A/C line repair on our yard. We've been blessed with a mild winter rain wise and a backlog of work so maintenance on our older stuff has taken a back seat. It's cheaper to rent and get the job done at the moment.

 

[CM1995]

On our other job laying a little 15" RCP. I haven't been in the seat of a hoe laying pipe in a while, although I was a little rusty it's like riding a bicycle. The 321DLCR with 7800+ hours still making money.



This was the week of PVC pipe and Nyoplast drains. There were 2 Nyoplast basins for the roof leaders on this strip center. 8" SCH 40 for the collector pipe. We were able to go over the sanitary sewer main line and laterals the plumbers installed earlier in the week. Moved the 306 to this job to finish out the weeks rental.




8" roof leader next to a 4" sanitary lateral.



Backfilling the ditch at end of work today. The white line is the edge of the building slab. The little Bomag doing what it does best.

 

[Browning.270]

CM how do they pour the building slabs down there, is there any frost/heaving issues in your region?