259D3 Fuel Pump in a non-D3

[Cpaine]

I remember reading that CAT been updating the problematic D-series machines with the new style D3 lift/transfer fuel pump. From the pics I can find online it seems like the main filter housing is part of the lift pump on the new style D3 pumps.

Was just at my local dealer and the Saturday parts lady was of no help, they had the old style pump in stock for around $200 but I think I would rather bite the bullet and upgrade now if I can confirm that it’s a simple retrofit, can anyone confirm this? Unfortunately I can’t find where I read about this months ago.


New style

Old

 

[Chrisso]

Don't know of any retrofit kits as such but Cat has upgraded this pump... Old p/n 416-5886 to new p/n 552-5534 pump.

Seem to be less issues with the new p/n... the 416-5884 replaceable plastic filter p/n stays the same.

 

[673moto]

This is what I used as replacement... usually in stock at Napa

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p...041bb5fff241197eae88d494b8b08b0d&gclsrc=3p.ds

 

[Nige]

The fuel transfer pump for the D3 is integral to the head of the fuel filter (left), and to add insult to injury it is not sold separately, only as part of the 525-3457 fuel filter assembly. On the face of it you would have to install the complete filter assembly from a D3 machine and also likely also have to modify the fuel lines (right). To me it seems more trouble than it's worth.

 

[Cpaine]

Don't know of any retrofit kits as such but Cat has upgraded this pump... Old p/n 416-5886 to new p/n 552-5534 pump.

That is good to hear, I was unaware of the improved version.

Seem to be less issues with the new p/n... the 416-5884 replaceable plastic filter p/n stays the same.

This is what I used as replacement... usually in stock at Napa

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/mr-gasket-electric-diesel-fuel-transfer-pump-12d/6340003-p?c3ch=PLA&c3nid=6340003-P&adtype=&product_channel=Online&store_code=&msclkid=041bb5fff241197eae88d494b8b08b0d&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=b_pla_all_performance/parts_performance/fuel/and/superchargers_gen_gen_all_pros_aap_us_all&utm_term=4580977765912801&utm_content=Bing_PLA_Performance Parts_Performance Fuel And Superchargers_Fuel System&gclid=041bb5fff241197eae88d494b8b08b0d&gclsrc=3p.ds

Seems like a good option for sure.
Would be nice to find the specs on the cat pump.

The fuel transfer pump for the D3 is integral to the head of the fuel filter (left), and to add insult to injury it is not sold separately, only as part of the 525-3457 fuel filter assembly. On the face of it you would have to install the complete filter assembly from a D3 machine and also likely also have to modify the fuel lines (right). To me it seems more trouble than it's worth.

View attachment 247091View attachment 247092

Well shoot, why do you want to go and make me think twice!?

yeah, I feel you may be right. I guess if it ain’t broke don’t fix it, and if the newer part is improved… just roll with it.

not to mention that part number lists for $620!


Thanks guys.

 

[heymccall]

Ain't this the same pump, sans the head.

 

[Nige]

According to the parts breakdown of the 525-3457 Filter/Pump Gp from another source the P/N for just the pump is a 512-4031. The only place I can find that P/N listed is in three specific Electrical Schematics, all of them for the D3-series machines.

The 228-9129 (which BTW is the P/N for the complete filter/pump Gp, not just the pump) services to 349-1063 and in certain cases (BHL) to 501-4461. Unfortunately none of those numbers lists the P/N for the pump as a separate item.

It's possible the pump in the advertisement above might fit the fuel filter assembly on a D3-series machine but I can't find any info anywhere to confirm that.

 

[Makers Acres]

Just wondering if you went through with this. I have been fighting fuel pump issues for years and was considering doing this upgrade. Seems like the small cat pumps only last a couple of years and now cat wants north of $230 for them. I have replaced them a couple of times now and even $600 would be worth it if it means not getting stuck in the middle of a job.

I did find this pump that I am pretty sure is what CAT is rebranding:
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=9807

Thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[heymccall]

8n reference to one I pasted above (Stanadyne), 99% of the time, that pump is good and the inlet on the filter head assembly is restricted. Complete head disassembly is easy. When apart, run a wire or a high pressure air through the inlet to the outer concentric stem that filter mates to.
Then, add a Napa inline screen (3972) in the supply line.

Out of the 20+ machines here that use that style pump (12&24v), I've only ever had a 24v unit fail on a Deere 544J.

 

[Nige]

Thinking out loud I wonder how many of those complete pump/filter assemblies have been changed out in the past when passages in the filter head blocked with contamination was all that was wrong with them.? Hundreds I would think.

 

[Makers Acres]

8n reference to one I pasted above (Stanadyne), 99% of the time, that pump is good and the inlet on the filter head assembly is restricted. Complete head disassembly is easy. When apart, run a wire or a high pressure air through the inlet to the outer concentric stem that filter mates to.
Then, add a Napa inline screen (3972) in the supply line.

Out of the 20+ machines here that use that style pump (12&24v), I've only ever had a 24v unit fail on a Deere 544J.

So you have retrofitted some of your machines with that one?

My concern is that there is a sensor connected to the bottom of the main filter. I wonder what the CAT will do without that connected.

 

[Makers Acres]

Thinking out loud I wonder how many of those complete pump/filter assemblies have been changed out in the past when passages in the filter head blocked with contamination was all that was wrong with them.? Hundreds I would think.

I did have some contamination which you helped me with on another thread here. That reduced my issues 90 percent. The small filter in the lift pump has maybe a 1/16 inch hole which blocks pretty easy. I normally stop the machine when it throws an error, and blow out the filter and start again and it works for a while. I also noticed the lift pump has been working intermittently now, which allows flow still, but also craps out when I seem to be at full power. It made for a frustrating weekend of work at about 50% power.

 

[Makers Acres]

These 3 fuel assemblies look interesting to me too:

https://www.amazon.com/Integral-Fue...sprefix=fuel+pump+filter+lift,aps,174&sr=8-11

https://www.amazon.com/Facet-40285-...uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl

https://www.amazon.com/Assembly-804...jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

 

[heymccall]

The new style has a return line from the engine, with a check assembly in that (the third port).

I have no idea how many GPH the either style is, nor why it doesn't have the third connection.

 

[heymccall]

Looks like the air purge is on the fuel filter housing, so, dropping in the new style would be just an in and out connection, but it will definitely require a Napa 3972 inline screen prior to it.

 

[Makers Acres]

Well, after much research, I ended up ordering:
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=8744

To me this looks like the pump that CAT rebrands.

I am also going to switch away from the CAT Pre fuel filter and I decided to go with this filter:
https://amzn.to/3Ymwh5E

Seems like if is higher micron and doesn’t suffer from the issues I have with the CAT ones.

I will make a video about the process when I do the swap.

 

[heymccall]

Is that inline filter diesel compatible?
I've had issues with the cellulose type inline filters when used in a suction scenario, on diesels.

 

[Makers Acres]

Is that inline filter diesel compatible?
I've had issues with the cellulose type inline filters when used in a suction scenario, on diesels.
View attachment 281415

That is a great question . It's hard to get a straight answer out of anyone on the internet. Some people say "If it works for Gas, then it will work for Diesel". I have been trying to find a decent pre filter, but almost all the reviews say these plastic ones break. So who knows. What kind of problems have you seen?

I have now installed the new pump and fuel filter and the new pump is so much quieter than the Original Cat pump. However, I was running it today and I got the same Fuel Leakage error I was getting before, so this didn't fix my problem either.

 

[Delmer]

The inline screen is compatible with diesel, it's only trying to keep out the big debris. A gasoline filter will not work for long, because it is too fine. To filter diesel, you need a more square feet of filter media in a bigger package than a lawn mower filter.

 

[Nige]

I am also going to switch away from the CAT Pre fuel filter and I decided to go with this filter:
https://amzn.to/3Ymwh5E

Save yourself the time & trouble. Don't bother with a filter obviously designed for gasoline...............

As Delmer points out above the purpose of the screen is to remove the diesel equivalent of "children, small dogs, & tree branches", not to fine filter the fuel.
It's worth remarking at this point that it helps if clean fuel is put in the tank right from the get-go. In years gone by Cat tank caps had the wording "Buy Clean Fuel. Keep it clean". They should never have discontinued them IMHO.