249D Parasitic drain

[benbuilder]

I have a 249D. Recently, I’ve noticed the battery dead every time I go out to use the machine. When i check for continuity through the kill switch, it proves positive. So, I initially thought it was a bad Kill switch, which this machine is equipped with. I installed a new switch, same problem.
I did some testing and determined that when I connect a test light to the negative battery cable and and ground it out to the body, The test light lights up. So I know I have a draw. I have also tested with a voltmeter I have about 11.7 V that I’m reading.
I pulled every fuse and relay in the cab, and the test light did not go out .
Is there another fuse somewhere else on this machine that I could pull to see if the test light goes out then I will know where my drain is.
Or any other ideas before i bring it to CAT.
Thank you.

 

[CM1995]

Welcome to the Forums BenB! Glad to have you!

I am no mechanic but we have several very knowledgable members here that can help.

In order to speed things up the mechanics will need the serial # of the machine in order to determine the build configuration.

Also moved this from skid steers to the CTL forum.

Best of luck!

 

[benbuilder]

Thanks, the serial number is:
CAT0249DHGWR02168

 

[Nige]

I'll send you a schematic. Keep an eye on your messages.

A thought. Does it have anything aftermarket connected to the electrical system.?
TBH if opening the master switch contacts (you mean the shown one below, right.?) doesn't stop the parasitic drain that is baffling.

Have you tried disconnecting one of the cables to said switch, and also the ground cables from the engine cylinder block, cab-to-frame, starter motor and alternator.?

 

[CM1995]

You're in good hands Benb.

 

[benbuilder]

Does it have anything aftermarket connected to the electrical system.? NO IT DOES NOT
TBH if opening the master switch contacts (you mean the shown one below, right.?) doesn't stop the parasitic drain that is baffling. CORRECT, THAT SWITCH, IF I HAVE IT ON OR OFF, THERE IS CONTINUITY THROUH THE SWITCH. I HAVE TESTED IT ON AND OFF THE MACHINE, OFF THE MACHINE IT WORKS FINE

Have you tried disconnecting one of the cables to said switch, and also the ground cables from the engine cylinder block, cab-to-frame, starter motor and alternator.? I HAVE NOT. WILL TRY THAT. ANY ONE I SHOULD START WITH?

 

[Nige]

CORRECT, THAT SWITCH, IF I HAVE IT ON OR OFF, THERE IS CONTINUITY THROUH THE SWITCH. I HAVE TESTED IT ON AND OFF THE MACHINE, OFF THE MACHINE IT WORKS FINE

That cannot possibly be correct. If there is continuity through it whatever position the switch is in then it has failed. Try bypassing the switch as a test by connecting both cables to one terminal of the switch, then disconnect the ground cable at the machine frame side. Does your parasitic drain disappear.?

I would start with the cable from the master switch to machine frame ground.

Followed by the starter, alternator, engine block, & cab in that order.

 

[benbuilder]

I have a new switch installed, it works as it should.
If I disconnect the switch side wire that goes to the machine frame ground and connect the negative side of a test light to this wire, then touch the frame ground stud with the point of a test light, the light lights up.
I still test for a parasitic drain and I do have it .
I will o disconnect the starter wire, and alternator now.
Thanks

 

[Nige]

I will o disconnect the starter wire, and alternator now.

Don't forget the engine block ground cable.

 

[benbuilder]

I have removed the:
starter wire from the battery positive connection,
alternator wire,
engine block ground and still i have a parasitic drain
Thanks for the help

 

[Nige]

starter wire from the battery positive connection,
alternator wire,
engine block ground and still i have a parasitic drain

OK. Now start with the fuse block.
Remove all the fuses - every one of them. There are 20 in total, 10 in the top half of the fuse box and 10 in the bottom half. Just make a note of the fuse ratings and where each one fits.
Do you still have the drain.?
if not then start reinstalling the fuses one at a time with the test light installed in place of the ground cable between the master switch and machine frame ground.

 

[benbuilder]

Thanks for the support.

I removed all the fuses, with a note how they go back in.

I set up for the test with my test light and yes i still have the drain with all the fuses and relays removed.

Interesting note, i am not sure it matters, but the test light always flutters when doing the parasitic drain test-constantly lit but flutter.

When i was in the cab with all the fuses removed, when i did the test i could hear the control panel flutter also, almost mimicking the light.

So i still have a drain.

This below is a note i made to myself on 6/6/22. I was having a problem and wanted to have record if i brought the machine to CAT:

I am the second owner of this machine. I have owned it for 8 months or so. No problems.

While operating the machine last week, the instrument panel went blank. We Ran the machine for another two or three hours. i started and stopped the machine with no problem with the panel blank.

When I was done for the day, I then went to check if the problem was a fuse. There was one fuse blown. It was a 15 amp fuse in the cab in the lower set of fuses. position 7. I thought I had found the solution. I replaced it and started up the machine but the display panel was still blank. When I went to shut the machine down, with the key removed, there were a couple lights it lit up. It showed the machine still had power. I had a choice- to remove the fuse which I’m sure was the reason why the lights were still on (not sure why this fuse did not blow like the last), or shut off the main disconnect at the rear door. The main disconnect switch would not move so I removed the ground that is bolted to the machine and that shut down the power to the machine completely.

I have since then replaced that 15 amp fuse with a new fuse and for some reason it has not blown yet, but it does keep the power on.

Shutdown the power for two days, restarted and no problem

 

[Nige]

Interesting.

Go to Grid D-10, Page 8 on the schematic. There you will find 3 relays. The one on the left is marked "PWR ECM" and is energized all the time the master switch is ON. Locate the 2-pin connector marked C-C19 on the schematic and disconnect it. Anything happen.? Can you hear the relay click when you power/de-power it.?
If that fails try removing the relay completely.



#44 is the location on the machine BTW.

 

[benbuilder]

Thanks for the second picture. i did not scroll down enough to see it. I figured it out on my own. Now that i am going to respond, i see it.

I assume this image is behind the seat? It says on the wiring diagram CAB REAR WIRING, and the box on the left is the fuse box? Is that the rear window above? If so, i just left the machine and i need to figure out how to remove the cover that is hiding all this electrical.

Unless it is somewhere else?

 

[heymccall]

These are images of that area on my 262D3.
Accessed best when Cab is raised, as this is on the rear cab wall. The orange wires and fuse holder are add-ons by me.

 

[heymccall]

Thinking quietly, out loud.....
Your test light across the master shutoff will glow at first connect. You're waking up module's.
The best way to test would be with a multimeter set to Amperes. Placed in between the battery negative and the chassis, I'd expect 50ma after allowing modules to go to sleep (usually 10 minutes).

If your battery is draining with master switch off, you have a battery issue. Most auto parts stores have a capacitance type battery tester. I think you'll find a poor battery rather than a parasitic draw.

 

[benbuilder]

OK, i lifted up the cab. With the kill switch on, all the fuses removed, the ignition key off, i disconnect the 2-pin connector marked C-C19. I do not hear a click. should the main key switch be on? should the fuses be installed?

The battery, i believe, is draining due to a parasitic drain. I use the test light to check for a parasitic drain. I am using the multimeter to check continuity across the terminals.

Again thanks for the help

 

[Nige]

With the kill switch on, all the fuses removed, the ignition key off, i disconnect the 2-pin connector marked C-C19. I do not hear a click. should the main key switch be on? should the fuses be installed?

You need the master switch in the ON position, ignition key switch OFF, fuses out.
Turning on the master switch should pull in the Main ECM PWR relay provided that connector C-C12 is plugged in. If you unplug it and plug it back in again you ought to be able to hear the relay clicking. (The 2 other relays to the right of that one are only pulled in when the ignition key switch is moved to the ON position.

If your battery is draining with master switch off, you have a battery issue. Most auto parts stores have a capacitance type battery tester. I think you'll find a poor battery rather than a parasitic draw.

TBH I think HMC is on to something regarding the need to test the battery condition. I would agree with him to do that first before moving on.

 

[Arny L]

I agree with HMC, see what total parasitic draw ACTUALLY is, after letting machine power down. Also remove key, if there is one from ign, and close cab door, when doing test. A test light is good for higher amp draws, not milli amps. But in case you do have a higher amp draw, set milli amp to 10 amp scale so you don't cook fuse protection in your meter, then check with 2 amp scale.

 

[benbuilder]

I will do as suggested from Arny L:
"see what total parasitic draw ACTUALLY is, after letting machine power down. Also remove key, if there is one from ign, and close cab door, when doing test. But in case you do have a higher amp draw, set milli amp to 10 amp scale so you don't cook fuse protection in your meter, then check with 2 amp scale."

I did do this, with no success, but will redo today
"You need the master switch in the ON position, ignition key switch OFF, fuses out.
Turning on the master switch should pull in the Main ECM PWR relay provided that connector C-C12 is plugged in. If you unplug it and plug it back in again you ought to be able to hear the relay clicking."

HMC suggests "The best way to test would be with a multimeter set to Amperes. Placed in between the battery negative and the chassis, I'd expect 50ma after allowing modules to go to sleep (usually 10 minutes)." I will try this today or tonight

Lastly, when i started noticing a problem, I charged the battery and took it to two auto parts stores one right after the other and they both said the battery was good when they put the tester (with the spring coils-not sure what it is called).

Thanks again