2018 Mecalac 6MCR

[crane operator]

The old Krupp crane books were always in german. Using a translater app is much easier than it used to be.

I heard from a mechanic that took a liebherr crane class, they had someone ask in the class "why isn't this formatted in english". The liebherr engineer response was "you should all know german"....

That said, at least the german built stuff is top notch. It may be three times more complicated than it needs to be, but sometimes I'm like "that's really cool" about what they build.

I don't think I've ever touched French built equipment.

 

[Willie B]

English built: It leaks. Electrical components smoke, burn, then fail
German built: If it is old, it doesn't run, nobody knows how to fix it.
American built: is incredible until the last mechanic factory trained retires. Then you are screwed.

 

[Willie B]

I have a nearly rust free utility truck, 1996 Chevy 1 ton, 4 wheel drive, by diesel standards low mileage, 90,000. I've trailered it to several truck service garages. One advertizes himself as a GM diesel engine specialist. Several thousands of dollars into it, it won't run.
Rebuilt the injector pump, it ran 50 miles. New shop, new pump, it made it home, It failed to run more than a year. Someone suggested Mark. I've known Mark in passing 40 years, didn't know what he did. Turns out he is a mobile mechanic. He is well informed in the freakish features of the GM 6.5 litre diesel. It seems you have to choose a resistor to add to a new injector pump, but nobody knows about it.
It isn't something you can take to the selling dealer. They have no mechanics from then. Takes a great researcher to find these obscure bits of information.
Truck was out of service 2 years, undependable 2 years before, now fixed with a $15. part.

 

[materthegreater]

The old Krupp crane books were always in german. Using a translater app is much easier than it used to be.

I heard from a mechanic that took a liebherr crane class, they had someone ask in the class "why isn't this formatted in english". The liebherr engineer response was "you should all know german"....

That said, at least the german built stuff is top notch. It may be three times more complicated than it needs to be, but sometimes I'm like "that's really cool" about what they build.

I don't think I've ever touched French built equipment.

The problem with translator apps is they don't do very well with technical terminology. Even human translators don't do very well with technical terms. I will study the diagram more; it's very small print and I just snapped one picture of it this morning.

 

[materthegreater]

High current circuit seems very simple. Coup batterie I presume to be a master disconnect. Demarreur I believe is the starter & solenoid Rectangle with a slash is electromagnet. Relais Demarrage (relay starter) J2-30 Receives battery positive from unclear source to J2-87 when magnet is powered. I can't read terminal numbers on relais demarrage.

The terminal numbers to the "relay starter" are U17-2 and U17-3 which match up to the Deutz motor diagram here:


The problem is that I don't know where on the machine this "relay starter" is located. It's not on the relay board.

 

[Willie B]

Any way to follow the wire from J1-50 on the starter solenoid? I have a circuit tracer puts a frequency signal on the wire. I can't say it'll do it. You mention no access to the starter, could you locate any of the other conductors running to it?

 

[materthegreater]

My theory is proved! It was about 5°F this morning so a perfect opportunity to test my theory of the starter control circuit voltage dropping low enough that the relay can't stay closed.

 

[crane operator]

Will it start at those colder temps, with the jumper cables/charger on just the battery?

 

[materthegreater]

Will it start at those colder temps, with the jumper cables/charger on just the battery?

Nope. To clarify, there was no jumper pack or charger on the battery in the video. I was simply adding a larger wire directly from the machine battery to the relay/control board.

 

[crane operator]

Check your battery shut off, it looks like in the wiring diagram, they have it on the hot (+) side of the battery. It could have a bad connection there, which would give you a voltage loss.

I've always put the shut off's on the ground side of the battery. I find that with it on the + side, it will have all the draw there, leading to arcing and eventually a bad connection.

I could be all wrong.

 

[materthegreater]

Check your battery shut off, it looks like in the wiring diagram, they have it on the hot (+) side of the battery. It could have a bad connection there, which would give you a voltage loss.

I've always put the shut off's on the ground side of the battery. I find that with it on the + side, it will have all the draw there, leading to arcing and eventually a bad connection.

I could be all wrong.

You are not wrong. I did have a small amount of voltage loss there, and at some of the other connections (grounds, etc). I cleaned all of them that I could get to which definitely helped, but still ended up with the 1.2v drop through the circuit that feeds the relay control board. I'm debating whether to try to track that circuit through all cab passages it goes through and clean any connections I find, or simply install a new, fused, larger wire from the battery shutoff to the control board. Mecalac seems to admit that the wiring is undersized because they have a wiring upgrade kit for this as seen in the YouTube video I posted by V-Belt and Son earlier in this thread. Unfortunately, I've called two dealers and they don't seem to be able (or want) to find the same Technical Information Notice and/or parts that are shown in that video.

 

[crane operator]

Have you checked voltage drop on each side of the disconnect as you are cranking?

If you think the upgrade kit is the solution, I would contact the factory direct and keep pushing until you get what you need.

 

[materthegreater]

Have you checked voltage drop on each side of the disconnect as you are cranking?

If you think the upgrade kit is the solution, I would contact the factory direct and keep pushing until you get what you need.

I did check the voltage drop across the disconnect when I was checking the voltage drop at the control board. There was some loss, but much less significant than the drop at the control board.

I like Willie's idea of using a circuit tracer. But even if I can find and clean all connections in the circuit, I still will have to deal with the undersized wire. So I think the upgrade is going to be the best way to fix this. And since it's quite unlikely that the upgrade kit from Mecalac would be provided free of charge, I'm probably better off building my own now that I know where it needs to be connected. But I suppose it's worth another call to the dealer now that I have proof of the exact problem on my machine.

 

[Georgia Iron]

Sounds like you are onto your issue. I had a week start with my f450 for the first time in single digit temps. I could hear the fuel pump, much louder than normal. Truck almost the killed batteries and left me stranded on a mountain side. My issue was diesel fuel gelling up...

 

[deezall33]

This is a good read. keep us posted.

 

[1466IH]

The direct importer of those machines is base out of Texas. I used to have their software on my old laptop. I will do some checking around tomorrow to see if i can find any of my old notes from when we used to do the field service for local dealer. If not I can get you their number and they should help.

 

[hvy 1ton]

But I suppose it's worth another call to the dealer now that I have proof of the exact problem on my machine.

I know they're on the other side of the country from you, but it couldn't hurt to call Global Machinery and ask their parts department about the wiring upgrade. I'm willing bet that's where the parts in the video were sourced from. I watched the beginning of the video again and I think the relevant Tech Info Notice for your issue is E.07.60.2019.

 

[materthegreater]

I do have an update that I just hadn't gotten posted yet. Thanks to a recommendation by @StumpyWally a few weeks ago I called Anderson Equipment near Albany, NY and with the help of a very nice parts guy, was able to track down the technical information notice mentioned in that video and the parts listed in it. I ordered them and two days later they were at my house. I haven't had a chance to install them yet, and at this point in the year it probably won't get cold enough again to know if it fixed the problem.

 

[Simon C]

My theory is proved! It was about 5°F this morning so a perfect opportunity to test my theory of the starter control circuit voltage dropping low enough that the relay can't stay closed.

Perfect example of how to do a voltage drop test from battery positive to the Panel start control positive.
Seen the drop on the meter, then nothing while cranking with booster cable in between the two.
So that starts it, but do you have any idea where the poor connection is hiding underneath.
Simon C

 

[materthegreater]

So that starts it, but do you have any idea where the poor connection is hiding underneath.

Undersized factory wiring.