Should there be a "degree of difficulty" factor in billing repair jobs?

I used to just laugh at them a tell them that of course I'm going to rip them off. It's called business.

Ya'll need to find better customers. Now I know construction and wrenching is not the same but the philosophy does apply.

The best business advice I've received in last ten years was from a general contractor when I asked him if he was going to bid a certain new fast food restaurant that has "roast beef" and a big hat. He began to tell me how many new builds they've constructed with just as many remodels under the prior construction management for the chain - at least 30 of each.

The GC then began to explain how the chain changed the corp construction management staff and ideology from one of using competent, quick and quality contractors to a bottom dollar low bid model.

His reply and best advice was - "I told them I wasn't interested in doing that kind of WORK for that kind of MONEY anymore". Pure genius if you have the skills and ability to back it up.

I've fired a couple of GC's and will not work for them for how they treat their subs and run their jobs. Moving towards a negotiated project business model where the GC, designers and owner appreciate quality work, value engineering and timely completion.

Skilled labor ain't cheap and cheap labor ain't skilled.

The Bernie Mack (rest his sole) triangle -

Good, fast, cheap - you can only pick 2 of the 3.

63 caveman said:

I have had potential customers look it up on u-tube and say "it should not take long or be hard". I tell them to call U-tube.

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Sure if it's posted on U-tube, Craigslist or ebay it's totally the gospel. One thing to remind folks of-Not Every Job Comes Apart As Easy As The Last One
Sometimes it turns to Sh!t.

I've learned in my years before retirement the more specialized you can get in a field of work the less picky your customers become, especially when you aren't a one trick pony.

If it’s to difficult, I pass..
I had a call last night from the father in-law of our old secretary..
She still works at the fuel shop I worked at for about 30 years..
He wanted to know how much I’d charge him to o/h his pump..
I told him “X” and he thru a tantrum.!!
I just laughed at him and said why don’t u give it to your daughter in-law and pay double and wait 6 weeks.??!!
There was a short pause and he said, “I’ll be over to your place on Monday.”.. (lol)

Truck Shop said:

Depends on what it is and who owns it. But I have a strict policy-No Volvos and no
Thermo King.

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I can see no T-K, but why the Volvo hate. They're easy peasy

funwithfuel said:

I can see no T-K, but why the Volvo hate. They're easy peasy

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I don't care for Swedish meatballs.

Truck Shop said:

funwithfuel said:

I can see no T-K, but why the Volvo hate. They're easy peasy

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I don't care for Swedish meatballs.

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This got me thinking, T-S what do you have in your shop for diagnostic software and hardware? I know you run mostly FL with DD engines, but also some KW?

Do you dig deep into electronic engine troubles or send it over to the dealer or sell it down the road?

Snap On. There is so much of what we have that's covered under warranty it really isn't
worth the time for the shop to trouble shoot. Plus most of it is bad harness and most of
the time it's on recall.

I don’t know about “degree of difficulty” but I think a lot of stuff that isn’t clearly a straightforward repair needs to be purely time and materials and the customer should be told up front stuff is going to cost more for that reason. My shop for some reason quotes a lot of stuff on a “flat rate” repair and we have to write a lot off instead of it being T&M. The flat rate hours are often all messed up because they have been previously “adjusted” for quotes or writing time off so no telling where how close it is to a realistic job time until you get into the repair.

a while back I did a full undercarriage job on a machine that had the original undercarriage from 40 years ago when it was built. It was quoted as a flat rate job just like any other undercarriage and we lost our butts on it because of the time factor in getting everything apart. I went through a full set of big O/A tanks on it with the rosebud getting everything apart. When I went to fetch the machine off the drop off line I immediately saw it was going to be an ordeal from all the rust and age but nobody cares what the mechanic thinks.

Engine repair-I only would quote a rough estimate. There is no way to know until it's opened up. Same with gear boxes.

Electrical troubleshooting with circuit boards and no literature I've always done T&M and I tell the customer up front it will take time and it will be expensive. I also tell them that I will order any literature necessary and that will be charged to the customer. They get to keep whatever books I have to purchase.

For engine work I sell it as two jobs. There is the removal and reinstall to start with. Then there is tear down and assessment. Only after the assessment is done will I give out any numbers and there is alway an overage factor of about 15%. A good rule of thumb for labor was that any six cylinder diesel with liners in the block was going to run about 100 hours for a teardown and clean, assess, reassembly and test. The test can be on a dyno or in the machine. Those 100 hours do not include machine work. Number of days of actual work I figure at around twelve days time for the overhaul when trying to give an idea of when the engine work might be done with a warning of extra time for parts orders, freight and people issues. Eyes usually get wide open at this point and then people start to shop elsewhere for a bit and then call you back and either order the exchange engine or tell you to get to work.

Running a construction and tree service business, I find everyone wants a flat rate quote, no matter what the project entails. While fixed bid works in some applications, it doesn't work in every situation. A lot of customers don't want to understand that.

They willingly let plumbers, electricians, etc in that work strictly on a T&M basis, but then expect me to give a hard quote on every project, no matter what. Residing old barns can run into a lot of structural stuff needing replaced that you can't see until it's stripped. Pruning long tree lines takes a lot of time depending on the trees involved, how the debris is to be handled, site conditions, etc. I can't just give a price per ft as there are too many variables. I can give an approximate range, but then they instantly think I'll do the job for the lowest number mentioned. I no longer give a verbal number unless its going to be a fixed bid job. Also, I've become very clear on any written paper I hand over that it is either an ESTIMATE or FIXED QUOTE. Some folks get it, others don't. Then there's always that guy that wants to add on almost twice the workload after you start a project and expect you not to bill for it. "Well, you were out there anyways. It didn't add that much time..." That particular job added an additional 9 hours of work and he expected it to be included as part of my estimated work

I'm a bit sour after a couple of recent jobs. I'll get over it; just need to really watch how I say things and what goes on print.

I would get a little leery when a customer wanted a whole lot of work done after running into a couple situations where they figure you can just do a couple "little" extra's for the same price or figure the price can be negotiated at the end of the job. One job in particular, the customer was really happy with the work when it was being done but when it came time to pay wanted to complain about the same stuff he was really happy with. I think he had planned to do this all along to get his job done cheaper. I almost should have called the police on him. He kind of backhandedly threatened me by telling me he broke the leg of one of the contractors who worked on his house because he thought they charged too much. It's sad when the jobs from hell stick in your mind more than the really good jobs.

Its nice to be retired but i still occasionally help a good friend or family but i make them do most of the work. I like to just 'consult' or only do any real work if they get in a real bind. Thats how they learn. I ain't gonna be around forever. I refuse to help anyone who will not invest any 'sweat equity' like my sister-in-law's husband. He used to refer to me as 'his' mechanic. I think he finally got the hint before i had to tell him to f-off. Whenever anyone tried to tell me how to do a job and how long it would take my response was ' well why didn't you do it yourself? '

How much? Oh,,, well,,, I would normally do it myself you understand but I dont have the tools or know what I am doing but,,, I would do it myself you understand.

I just dont have the time,,, otherwise I would do it myself,,, but I just dont have the time.

Truck Shop said:

Sure if it's posted on U-tube, Craigslist or ebay it's totally the gospel. One thing to remind folks of-Not Every Job Comes Apart As Easy As The Last One
Sometimes it turns to Sh!t.

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If I had a dollar for every theoretically easy job I took on that took 3-4 times longer than it should have because the previous owner did something stupid like welding a final drive drain plug up so it wouldn't take a ratchet...I wouldn't be able to retire, but I could certainly buy a few nice dinners out!

As long as people keep using adjustable/crescent wrenches to keep the corners rounded off you can expect problems.

What about when the customer wants you to feel sorry for them because you have to fix someone else's mess. Sometimes it's best if the customer leaves everything alone instead of trying to do it themself.