White pines

Here is a non equipment related issue, but I figured you guys would have worked around enough pine trees. I live in a subdivision that was built in the 70s in the middle of a pine stand. Most of the trees are gone now, except on the outside edges. I have cut a few dandies down on my property over the years, and only have 3 100 foot white pines, and a 60 foot red pine left. It is a residential area, but I do have about 3/4 of an acre. besides the red pine, all the trees are close enough to my house to clip it if they fall the right way, but they are all healthy, and barring high winds, and waterlogged ground, I'm not worried. One of the white pines however only about 5 feet inside my line, and could do a serious number on my neighbour's house. She never complains about it, and I always clean up the branches and pine needles on her side. I really don't want to cut it down. It provides a bit of privacy, and the kids hang out under it in the shade. About 45 or 50 feet up, it splits off into 2 main runners. If I were to cut one runner, say this fall, and use something to seal the cut. Then cut the next runner and seal it next fall, do you think it would kill the tree? It has a lot of branches below the 45 foot mark, and I would still have the privacy, and the kids would still have their hang out. If I was going to cut the entire tree, being that it is so close to her house, I would probably get a man lift from work, and limb it from the bottom up, then junk it up as I come back down. Probably do the same if I were to cut the runners to avoid breaking lower branches.

I think you'll be fine. Not sure if I'd do that or not, but I might. Are you thinking liability potential, or just being a good neighbor, or something else? partly depends on which direction your storms come from compared to where the top would drop.

As far as I've heard, just leave the cut bare is the current recommendation.

Would one ask a butcher or a Vet animal health questions ?

Get an arborist out to look at it. NC State has foresters/arborists available to advise folks. Maybe your province does too ...

Delmer said:

I think you'll be fine. Not sure if I'd do that or not, but I might. Are you thinking liability potential, or just being a good neighbor, or something else? partly depends on which direction your storms come from compared to where the top would drop.

As far as I've heard, just leave the cut bare is the current recommendation.

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My insurance tells me that as long as the tree is strong and healthy, if it falls due to an act of God, it is the neighbours problem, and their insurance should cover it. But if the tree is unhealthy, and at risk of falling, and falls, it falls to my insurance.. We only get the tail end of your hurricanes here. Not near the high winds. Most of our high winds come in the winter during a Nor easter.

hosspuller said:

Would one ask a butcher or a Vet animal health questions ?

Get an arborist out to look at it. NC State has foresters/arborists available to advise folks. Maybe your province does too ...

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I guess I figured someone that worked around machinery in the woods might have noticed pine trees that have lost large runners in the wind, and if they have survived. Most arborists will tell you to cut it or leave it. No in between. At least not around here. I checked a tree site one time, and you would think I was going to commit murder. This one went on about how the tree was probably over 100 years old, and it had more right to the property than I did. I promptly left that conversation.

You don't need an arborist to tell you that it has a weak crotch with two leaders. The liability sounds the same as here, they'd have to prove negligence for you to be responsible, like you were aware it was dead, injured and weak. I'd guess 99% of the time the insurance pays for their own insured in those cases, because houses are cheaper than lawyers.

You're not going to hurt the existing branches by cutting off the top, trees get snapped off all the time. It might cause it to rot out faster than if it stayed up and split on it's own, but it's lower down and less risky then too.

I got a few bigguns on my property and a pair of eagles figure to raise several families in one. Killed it dead as dead and I can't cut it down because the eagles are still propagating.

grandpa said:

I got a few bigguns on my property and a pair of eagles figure to raise several families in one. Killed it dead as dead and I can't cut it down because the eagles are still propagating.

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We had one pine 3' in diameter in our backyard that was struck by lightening over a year ago and killed it dead as a hammer. Cost $3K to take it down with a few other trees back in Feb.

A couple of weeks ago lightening hit the other 3' diameter pine across the creek in our back yard, about 50 yards away from the first pine. So far it hasn't died due to time of year but it's dead. Great another $3-4K to take it down.

I think what you are talking about is co-dominant runners. In my experience, they balance each other out on growth to a certain extent. Cut one side and the other side becomes a problem.

Only a professional arborist can determine if a tree is a hazard or not. If you have one look and they determine it is a hazard, you have no choice but to bring the tree down. Around here I've heard of insurance companies not covering a known peril, such as a dead or dying tree, that has been ignored. Right now if you leave it alone and it comes down, the act of God clause takes affect. If you have someone out to take it down, make sure their insurance will cover any issues that might occur in then bringing it down. It they happen to drop the tree into yours or a neighbor's house, your insurance might cover the repair and then file subrogation against the contractor, but then again maybe not.

Around here we call these types of trees a school marm.

CM1995 said:

We had one pine 3' in diameter in our backyard that was struck by lightening over a year ago and killed it dead as a hammer. Cost $3K to take it down with a few other trees back in Feb.

A couple of weeks ago lightening hit the other 3' diameter pine across the creek in our back yard, about 50 yards away from the first pine. So far it hasn't died due to time of year but it's dead. Great another $3-4K to take it down.

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2 lightning strikes in a year, and now a tornado over the hill? I ain't no medicine man, but someone's sending you smoke signals!

crane operator said:

2 lightning strikes in a year, and now a tornado over the hill? I ain't no medicine man, but someone's sending you smoke signals!

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No doubt right?

Wife and I have a 1.5 acre lot closer in to the city we plan to build on last March before the world went nuts. Decided to go ahead in July only to find out lumber prices increased $50K for the house!

Lumber is still in the $800 per 1000 range so we're waiting.

My subdivision is a loop. I am on the inside of the loop with a field behind me. At one time they had a ball field, and a hockey rink there. The people in the neighborhood looked after it. Then when this area was absorbed by the city, the public works dept took everything away because they didn't want the liability. The homes on the outside of the loop border the woods, a few big pines remain, but there is a right of way to the next property. I think at one time it was going to be another development. It has some big pines. They have grown in a group, so they are only 2 footers at the butt, but man they are tall. A young fell that had bought a house next to the right of way was worried about some of the larger pines, and had them cut. Now in behind the white pines are a bunch of jack pines. When the white pines were there, the jack pines never moved, but now, when the wind blows, those big boys do some awful swaying. Maybe I'll leave the old girl for now. My daughter is 10, so she won't be playing under the pine much longer. I'll wait a few more years, then bring her down.

Re: Cutting edge's subdivision... I used to live in a subdivision with a home owner association. The HOA owned the common area. When the adjoining property wanted to connect to the roads, they had to cross a little strip of land. The HOA got a bunch of money selling the little strip,
Point of the story.... Who owned the ball field and rink ? How Did the PW dep't take the land? Canadian rules ?

hosspuller said:

Re: Cutting edge's subdivision... I used to live in a subdivision with a home owner association. The HOA owned the common area. When the adjoining property wanted to connect to the roads, they had to cross a little strip of land. The HOA got a bunch of money selling the little strip,
Point of the story.... Who owned the ball field and rink ? How Did the PW dep't take the land? Canadian rules ?

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No HOA around here. The area is along the Miramichi river. At one time, The town of Newcastle was on the north side of the river, and the town of Chatham was south. I was from the town of Newcastle. At one point, the province decided to bring together Newcastle, and all of the little service districts on that side of the river, and Chatham and it's out lying service districts, and become the city of Miramichi. I now live in an area that was between the town of Chatham, and the village of Loggieville. Taintville.....taint Chatham, and it taint Loggieville. The field was just zoned a public property, and the subdivision.... probably 40 homes, they bought the stuff to build the rink, and the ball field. I think the province might have donated some stuff. Anyway once the city was formed, it all became city property. Public works, and parks an rec, came in, tore down the pump house, backfilled the well, and took the rink back boards. One of the homes in the subdivision bought the property a few years back for a dollar. Some kind of a snake deal, because no one knew it was for sale.

From what my arborist friends have told me is topping trees is not exceptable anymore. From what i understand you will get new leaders growing trying to take over the place of the ones you cut. The problem is they will not be growing from i side the wood they will be more from the bark and weak and will be a hazard. The norm now is just to have a climber thin out the tree.
I am not a arborist or have anything to do with trees other then burning them. My advice is free so that is what it is worth.

Insurance companies have as far as I know a uniform agreement that if a tree on your property falls on your neighbor's property, no matter what, the neighbor's homeowners insurance will cover it. Having had neighbors trees on both sides fall and do damage to our structures, I have learned that.
Now, tree related: I know of White pine, Yellow pine, (Ponderosa) Sugar pine, but what is a Red pine? That is a new one to me. Even my dendrology book (1963 printing) does not mention one. I assume it is a common name like Red fir and Yellow fir for Douglas fir depending on the age of the tree.

Maybe Tamarac?

A Red Pine is a species of yellow pine found in MN and east, not as hard or strong as Southern yellow pines though. It is common in WI, especially planted in pulpwood plantations on sandy soils. Has a reddish tinge to the bark and two needles.

Tamarack or Larch is a conifer that loses it's needles in the winter, and grows in swamps too wet for any other tree. Also planted in dryer sites.

Wouldn't surprise me at all if insurance companies have a "no fault" tree damage agreement. After all, most trees fall in storms, and it's hard to prove negligence when there's branches down all over. If your neighbor has a weak tree though, a registered letter will usually get action. Even more if you could send one to their insurance company if you could find it. Hard to deny negligence when you've been warned.

I really need to bite the bit, and get a phone that I can post pictures. They use red pine trees to make hydro poles. They grow tall and straight, and their branches are small. Must be something in the sap, as the hornets love them. Pinus Resinosa.

In general and in this state for sure, you can't tell your neighbor to cut down a tree just because you think it might fall. Only a certified professional can make the determination. The neighbor cannot be compelled to hire an arborist to come and make that decision.

I should make a video of the road I have to travel with all the dead and dying alder and cottonwood trees that are going to take down communications and power lines in the not distant future. There are trees that are hanging on the phone lines even now and the property owners want to be paid for the wood before they will allow the crews to take them out.

John C. said:

I....There are trees that are hanging on the phone lines even now and the property owners want to be paid for the wood before they will allow the crews to take them out.

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Around here, the power company has an easement that specifically states they can come and cut trees within the easement. If a tree is on the lines, it's on the easement and is fair game... Landowner is SOL.