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Volvo EC460BLC Engine situation/options

funwithfuel

funwithfuel

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That is poor coolant maintenance. That's what happens when you mix EG coolant with OAT coolant. You get silica dropout. A pressure washer through the coolant passageways should knock that loose and clean right up. It won't help with the piston cooling jets. You still have that going . Your sealing grooves all look to be intact. That's why that piston scored also. The liner got hot and squeezed it. Would be my guess. Worse case I've ever seen. I'll bet there's some stop leak in that crust. Which brings to mind, dont let the radiator shop just check your radiator. Make sure to have them remove the tanks and rod the core out.
 
Tony Wells

Tony Wells

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That scored piston was #6, btw. Odd how the material accumulated around #1 though. The head still would be a problem, it seems to me. From the overzealous use of a scotchbrite pad, it's not flat. You can see leakage evidence in the upper left area just at the edge of where the gasket should seal. Probably could be cleaned up my machining, though. The pitting or holes from whatever rattled around in there would worry me though. I'll get the guys to clean up those seal grooves to make sure they are indeed ok.

The plan was to have the radiator rodded anyway. I worked in a relatives radiator shop for a little while. Long enough to know I didn't like it. Especially the big truck radiators, but that's where the money was. We had a contract with one of the local concrete companies, so had plenty to do. Once autozone, etc. started selling new completes cheaper than our cost to recore one (with a decent core, not the junk they sold), no one wanted to fix theirs all of the sudden. Cheaper to just go buy one.

So from those pics., maybe the block isn't toast, eh. Well, I'll see what my engine guys say. It's an old shop, 3rd and 4th generations working there. Lots of experience, and I trust them. I hope they find you're right. Would simplify things a great deal. That is, if I can save the head, or locate another one.

Thanks for the observations.
 
Last edited:
Tony Wells

Tony Wells

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What's the VE signify in the series VED12D? Found a reman head, but can't get anyone to commit to a fit. Sending the block to a machine shop to see if they can salvage the seal grooves in #1. There is some minor damage.

I'm finding D12D engine all over the world, but not going through all that hassle and time. Found a NOS in China. $32k+
 
sfrs4

sfrs4

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So after scan reading through this quickly this morning, The D12C would be a pain in the a$$ to swap into your EC, mainly down to the fact you would need and ECU and engine loom to go with it. But it would be a way of future proofing any further problems.
Interestingly Volvo did a version that could be perfect for you... Part No. 8188746, D12D TIER3, BASED TIER2 S/N 12523 - 12649, (8279676, 8288735) if i'm reading it right a Tier3 engine based on a Tier2? or is it the other way round?????
The Egr head ( which is actually only valve seats valves and the rocker arm ) is the stumbling point. but if the above is correct it could be a winner.
The VE is just a joint venture between Volvo and Eicher motors to make engines for Volvo, so that should be a good engine.
 
funwithfuel

funwithfuel

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Tony Wells said:
That scored piston was #6, btw. Odd how the material accumulated around #1 though. The head still would be a problem, it seems to me. From the overzealous use of a scotchbrite pad, it's not flat. You can see leakage evidence in the upper left area just at the edge of where the gasket should seal. Probably could be cleaned up my machining, though. The pitting or holes from whatever rattled around in there would worry me though. I'll get the guys to clean up those seal grooves to make sure they are indeed ok.

The plan was to have the radiator rodded anyway. I worked in a relatives radiator shop for a little while. Long enough to know I didn't like it. Especially the big truck radiators, but that's where the money was. We had a contract with one of the local concrete companies, so had plenty to do. Once autozone, etc. started selling new completes cheaper than our cost to recore one (with a decent core, not the junk they sold), no one wanted to fix theirs all of the sudden. Cheaper to just go buy one.

So from those pics., maybe the block isn't toast, eh. Well, I'll see what my engine guys say. It's an old shop, 3rd and 4th generations working there. Lots of experience, and I trust them. I hope they find you're right. Would simplify things a great deal. That is, if I can save the head, or locate another one.

Thanks for the observations.
Click to expand...
There should be stamped in the front of the head , the part number and serial number. It'll be faint with those fine dot printing, but it should be there. That may help in getting the correct head, if yours can't be saved.
 
Tony Wells

Tony Wells

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@sfrs4 That's exactly what I'm trying to avoid. Swapping in a C would not be worth all the trouble. So basically at this point, I'm trying to make a determination on my block and if it can be salvaged, and sourcing a replacement head. Then there would be no need of an ECU swap with the associated hassle, expense and changes and the cab.

@funwithfuel Thanks for that info. I'll talk to my engine guys today and get that PN and SN to see what I can find. Worst case is that the block is indeed scrap due to damage to the seal grooves and I have to find a D engine of some sort. I don't want to buy a NOS engine, so that leaves a buildable block or running, low hours engine as my preferred finds.

You mentioned a possible hard start condition as a side effect of using a C style head and d/c the oil control solenoid. Been thinking about that. Why would that cause a hard start?

Thanks for the discussion, guys. It's helping sort this out.
 
funwithfuel

funwithfuel

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Tony Wells said:
@sfrs4 That's exactly what I'm trying to avoid. Swapping in a C would not be worth all the trouble. So basically at this point, I'm trying to make a determination on my block and if it can be salvaged, and sourcing a replacement head. Then there would be no need of an ECU swap with the associated hassle, expense and changes and the cab.

@funwithfuel Thanks for that info. I'll talk to my engine guys today and get that PN and SN to see what I can find. Worst case is that the block is indeed scrap due to damage to the seal grooves and I have to find a D engine of some sort. I don't want to buy a NOS engine, so that leaves a buildable block or running, low hours engine as my preferred finds.

You mentioned a possible hard start condition as a side effect of using a C style head and d/c the oil control solenoid. Been thinking about that. Why would that cause a hard start?

Thanks for the discussion, guys. It's helping sort this out.
Click to expand...
The hard start mentioned would be if you lost power to the circuit that feeds oil control valve. It would allow full oil to rocker shaft, it would be the same as trying to start with all three Jake's on full retard on a road truck.
 
sfrs4

sfrs4

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The head part number is a bit misleading, we broke a D9B engine a couple of months ago, punched the part number on the head into prosis......nothing, gave it to some friends in the truck world......nothing, gave it to some friends in the marine industry came back as some obscure D9 variant they had, once we started down the route of checking all the part numbers on bits we could find it turns out the straight D9B engine with no prefix after it is a right mongrel of an engine with bits robbed from all over the Volvo world. ( this was a genuine factory engine as far as we knew, all original gaskets etc no sign of a rebuild)
Had a quick look at the part numbers for your cylinder head and it goes a little some thing like this, original part number 20560799 ss to 21086450 which in turn ss to 22012779 interestingly that last number opens up a few more machines to steel from lol EC330B/C EC360B/C EC460B/C A40D A35D/E L150E/F L180E/F L220F
 
funwithfuel

funwithfuel

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Loader and hauler will require flywheel, bellhousing and front cover assembly to be swapped out. If you select an engine from any of them.
Great point though, my apologies for my narrow point of view.
 
Tony Wells

Tony Wells

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VOE20560799 is stamped on the front of the head I have located. Doesn't line up with most of the other part numbers I have seen so far on Volvo. That is the only number seen so far, from a wire brush scrubbing. No planning on vatting a scrap head. Could that be a SN?
 
Tony Wells

Tony Wells

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Agreed. My buddy's core handler will have to be certain it is an excavator engine I suppose, unless all the parts mentioned (all rotating mass parts) would swap over. If the absolute bare block is identical, then we could be ok. Pity, or maybe they do, that Volvo doesn't track engine SN's all the way back to original build. I could get a dealer lookup and see just exactly where it's been and who it's friends are....background check o_O
 
B

Ben Witter

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From what I see the 20560799 Head is common to all D12D T3 engines used by VCE. The head you linked to is from a truck parts dealer so most likely it is a truck part and without knowing the components used it is hard to say whether it is the same. I would bet it is different.
Another thing to consider id the head looks like it has copper cups and you would need to determine if you the older injectors that use the copper cups or if your engine has been upgraded to the conical seat injectors which use the stainless cups. If you have a mismatch you will have to swap out cups for the correct ones.
Also a reman Volvo head comes with stainless cups only, in the event you go that direction.
 
Tony Wells

Tony Wells

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OK, we have a plan that we kicked into gear today. My engine guys know a core dealer who has a matching engine that runs, but has blowby and needs a rebuild. Just exactly what I thought I had in the 460 to begin with, so basically I'm back at the beginning of this saga, but with an engine that is not trashed. It's reasonably priced and in the end this job will cost about the same as the original proposal. So we're off high-center and moving.

Of course, when the replacement engine gets here, it will get a teardown, and it's guaranteed to be a rebuildable engine. That will be confirmed before putting much work or any money in it.

I sure appreciate all the information you guys all provided in this thread. It helped a lot. Probably prevented me from making a mistake or three. Just for kicks, and possibly to share some satisfaction, I may post progress reports and a final green tag for the machine. Now I'll just worry about the transmission and running gear........

Thanks again all.

Tony
 
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