Road ranger question, trouble changing from high range to low range

Nick009 said:

Thanks Mitch I look forward to hearing what you find out. I've been googling and I can't find any RR air filter that looks like the one I've got. Or one with a big spring in it.

Click to expand...

OK we are going to go over this again, when trying to repair old stuff, sometimes you have to make do with info that may not be a 100% applicable to your equipment. Often there are production changes which are not in the manual, that is why you often have to use other information or a bit of guesswork to be able to fix stuff.
I am somewhat annoyed as it would appear you have not bothered to look at the parts pdf I posted, http://stemontreal.com/LCD/Eaton-Fuller-Tr/Eaton-Fuller-Tr-HD-PL/RT-613.pdf if you had you would see a big spring on page 14.
Funnily enough the air filter in that pdf looks a lot like the one you have.
For your and others information I will say that parts books are a valuable source of information, as often they will have references to superseded and upgraded parts, which is not in the R&R book. Also often they will have diagrams of the parts and how they connect together, which is handy if you don't have a manual.
Any pro mechanic on this forum will tell you that you have to use the repair manual and parts book together to do a successful repair.

Nick009 said:

I put it back in but there is no improvement. if anything it sound more mushy and sloppy whilst in neutral with the motor off

Click to expand...

Pages 32-34 show the air flow for the three ranges, do you understand them?
Notice that the intermediate cylinder works different to the range cylinder, however they both need a certain air pressure to work and they both get their air from the regulator, thus if the intermediate is working well but the range is not, we can deduce that the regulator is working, dirty filter or not.
So we may focus on the range cylinder or slave valve as being the problem, as I don't think the synchro comes into play when the truck is parked.
Perhaps another simple test is to pull the air line off the range cylinder, as you may see only in high range is the back line charged and in deep and low there should be no air coming out of the back of the range cylinder unless the big O ring is leaking. if the small O ring on the inside of the range shaft where to be the problem you would have good range shift from low to high but poor shift from high to low.

Boy Hendrik, I surely agree about the parts books, they usually have much better diagrams than the service manuals. I looked through my big stack of Eaton stuff and couldn't find a parts book for a 613.

I missed your parts book link the first time around too. I actually found a part number I needed for a 1970 RT9513 in that book. My only complaint was that it is sideways, but I guess it is right side up for you guys down under. Seriously, I'm going to save that site.

If the o-ring on the cylinder shaft is leaking, you should be able to hear the air leaking out of the breather on top of the tranny. If you go chasing air leaks, be careful. My brother took the top cover off and was feeling for a leak when the button got hit, he lost 2 fingers cleanly, but not painlessly.

I still don't think the problem is going to be in the air system. I have run down many, many, air problems; and I have never seen anything but an internal mechanical problem cause a grinding sound on range shift. An air problem usually causes slow shifts, or no shift.

mitch504 said:

I missed your parts book link the first time around too. I actually found a part number I needed for a 1970 RT9513 in that book. My only complaint was that it is sideways, but I guess it is right side up for you guys down under. Seriously, I'm going to save that site.

Click to expand...

Gee that makes me feel special, nobody reads my posts, why do I bother, ahh well it's typing practise.
Might as well just type any old rubbish about eliminating the simple things before pulling gearboxes apart or some such thing but why should I, no one will read it, perhaps once again suggest draining the oil and checking for metal, lots of metal = problems, expensive problems. Especially as the gearbox is under the cab, which makes it a pain to get at, one of the advantages of a cab over I suppose?
I know, perhaps I'll start my posts with FREE BEER that should get peoples attention until they figure out there is no free beer and switch back into zombie mode and spend hours looking for information that has been posted before.
Speaking of beer I might have one or two and contemplate why no one reads my posts :crying even the smiley list hates me know and won't automatically put in a emoticon :crying
Ohh yeah the reason the pdf is sideways is because mechanics lie on their backs under trucks. Maybe I'll write my posts sideways?

Hendrik, I am sorry, I too missed that link in that post. I promise I have looked through all the other links. that parts book is fantastic! And thank you, I really do appreciate your help.

I kind of understand the air flow, but it is all very new to me so I'm not really 100% confident in my understanding. I have read though it several times and each time it seems to make more sense. It makes sense that the filter and regulator are working ok. Mitch's story about his brothers fingers has me a bit worried. I don't think I'll do anything with the air lines or range cylinder unless the tanks are drained.

Hendrik, do you know where I could find parts like the filter element in Perth? or Australia in general?

Mitch with Hendriks book I can safely say you ID'd the regulator in that photo further up.

I have noticed air leaking out of the selector switch when I shift deep reduction in and out. Sometimes in leaks when its in and sometimes it leaks when its out. I've only noticed it with the engine off when I been listening for the click clack sounds.

I can hear a fairly quiet air leak somewhere near the top of the tranny but I haven't really figured out exactly where it is coming from. After a few hours the primary air gauge goes down to 50 PSI or less, I need to build air again before I can take the brakes off. Is that considered a significant air leak?


I found a valve like this on the other two tanks, how does it work? is it a drain valve?

Nick009 said:

I found a valve like this on the other two tanks, how does it work? is it a drain valve?

Click to expand...

Drain the water and oily muck out of the air tanks at least once a day.

One of my tanks has a cord that you pull and I do drain that one every day. I'm not sure how to operate the valve pictured above. Do you just unscrew it? do I need to drain each tank separately?

That's OK it was a tongue in cheek comment, your on a bit of a learning curve, which we have all been on and are still on.
I actually know a lot more about RR boxes know than I did before this, so that's good.
The air flow diagram is straightforward, you just have to understand which line is active and which is not, now you'll notice that the older style shifter has three air lines, whilst the newer style (like in your truck) has four.
Those air lines are named H/S P S and SP on the four line shifter, the three line does not have the H/S line.
The SP line goes straight to the intermediate cylinder, whereas the others go to the slave cylinder. That's because the intermediate cylinder has it's own slave valve built into it. So you really should be looking at pages 35-37 for your truck.
Yes putting your hand into a road ranger box is not the best idea.
You can try truckline or another truck parts place, if they give you joy you can go to Eaton direct for parts http://www.roadranger.com/rr/Custom...rRepresentative/AustraliaNewZealand/index.htm
Part number Description / Replacement Part Notes List Price # of Units Core Value
16920 ORDER K-1486
K-1486 REPAIR KIT-AIR FLT 27.88
http://www.roadranger.com/rr/Aftermarket/PriceLists/index.htm
Air leaks, try leaving the truck in different ranges to see if it leaks more or less. Once you understand the air flow you can figure out which O ring is sealing in a particular range.
Generally leaks are found by a process of elimination if they can't be located by sight, sound or feel.
WARNING AT THIS STAGE I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT WORKING WITH HIGH PRESSURE AIR IS A POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS THING MAKE SURE YOU WEAR SAFETY GLASSES
That valve is a basic screw type, undo the butterfly and it should open unless it is blocked up with gunk, then you gotta take it out and clean it or replace it.
Yes each tank should be drained but generally one does more work and will have more water than the other, which is normal.

Hendrik said:

Yes each tank should be drained but generally one does more work and will have more water than the other, which is normal.

Click to expand...

The first tank after the compressor will collect most of the water and oily muck, but it is still a good idea to drain the others as well. When you work out which one collects most of the muck, you can drain the others a bit less often.

The butterfly doesn't seem to undo when I turn it, I've ordered 2 more pull on the cord type drain valves and will replace the butterfly's when they arrive. I ordered them on ebay because I have no idea where to buy that sort of thing.

You might want to think about putting an air hose fitting in the truck, if it don't have one, comes in handy for inflating tires and such.

Nick009 said:

The butterfly doesn't seem to undo when I turn it, I've ordered 2 more pull on the cord type drain valves and will replace the butterfly's when they arrive. I ordered them on ebay because I have no idea where to buy that sort of thing.

Click to expand...

Any truck parts shop should be able to sell you something like that, Truckline or the like.

Hendrik said:

You might want to think about putting an air hose fitting in the truck, if it don't have one, comes in handy for inflating tires and such.

Click to expand...

Good idea. Just don't put it where the drain valve was. Find another port.

Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik
You might want to think about putting an air hose fitting in the truck, if it don't have one, comes in handy for inflating tires and such.

Click to expand...

I found one after that suggestion. its just a bit rusted up so I'll replace that one shortly too.

I didn't explain very clearly about the butterfly, it just spins on the thread but doesn't actually undo anything.

yep, that's how those valves die

The other day I was talking to a bloke about a part time job doing demo work. They've got a couple of CH Macks with 13 speeds and he said that on one of them you have to change the range with the box in neutral, otherwise there will be grinding.
Perhaps try that and see what happens?

Hi Hendrik, Thanks for the info but I've already tried it. Even at 5km/h in neutral it still makes a nasty noise. I have to be not moving at all and even then its still a big clunk. I'm just kinda putting up with it for now.

Nick009 said:

Hi Hendrik, Thanks for the info but I've already tried it. Even at 5km/h in neutral it still makes a nasty noise. I have to be not moving at all and even then its still a big clunk. I'm just kinda putting up with it for now.

Click to expand...

It's most likely a synchronizer inside the transmission has gone bad. At Least it was was with our Mack when it started doing that.

Yes someone suggested that earlier. Have you had that problem recently GPC? The last suggestion was around $1000 to get it fixed but it was quite a few years ago. If your's was more recent perhaps you could let me know how many hours it took to replace it then I can do the maths!

Nick009 said:

I just bought my first truck with a road ranger. I did my driving course with one but that was about 10 years and I haven't driven one since. I bought a 1980 ford louisville LNT8000 tipper and the previous owner told me he replaced the gearbox with a s/h one at some point. Its a fifteen speed with deep reduction and then low range and high range.

I'm having trouble changing down from high range to low range. If we forget about the deep reduction and call 1st gear in low range gear 1. I'm having trouble changing down from gear 7 (high range) to gear 5 (low range).

There is no problem changing up from 5 to 7. I flick the range switch to high when in gear and move the stick, no clutch, no problem.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it I should do the same procedure in reverse to get from 7 to 5. But something is not happening right because I can't get from 7 to 5 without crunching sounds coming from beneath me. I've been trying to use the clutch, so in gear 7 I flick the range switch down then put the clutch in, move the stick to neutral, but when I let the clutch out there is a crunching sound. and then I can't seem to find a gear without slowing right down to a walking pace.

Am I doing something wrong?

I haven't tried to engage the deep reduction while moving but it does seem to work while stationery. I live in a very hilly area and I think I will need it to get up these hills with a load. What is the procedure for changing into deep reduction while moving?

Thanks for your advice

Click to expand...

I came in here late (I apologise if the question has been already answered) but why skip 6th gear, when changing up or down with the range selector? 6th gear is a progressive jump between 5th and 7th on both the RT(direct in high gear) and RTO(overdrive in high gear) ten and fifteen speed transmissions. We have one fifteen speed and three ten speed/four speed setups at the place where I work, that's how we shift them, 5th- 6th- 7th going up and 7th- 6th- 5th going down. BTW using the deep reduction go through first second and third in the deep reduction then push in the clutch and flip the button, leaving the lever in 3rd, that is the next progressive step up. Alternatively, you can shift up 5th gear, then flip the button while shifting the trans into 4th gear position, that is also the next progressive step up. If you have to skip 6th gear to change between high and low range it sounds like your trans has a 13 speed gearset in the front half.