This will be an interesting thread moving forward......

suladas · Jul 17, 2022

John C. said:
So how does that explain the insane money being paid to executives?

The laws of supply and demand has to apply here and institutional stock holders are not stupid when it comes to reasons that companies are not profitable.

While most are insanely overpaid I don't think it means everyone else deserves a huge raise. A 100M company can afford to pay a CEO 1 million plus easy. But paying a bunch of employees $300k? No way.

The thing that makes it great to live in a free country is that if someone doesn't like the pay they are offered they can start their own company. They are not forced to work for that amount. If enough say they aren't working for that it will push up the wage.

While there are many good employees the majority don't do themselves any favor's with their crap work ethic and general attitude of not giving a crap about anything. Around here in construction, if you can find someone who shows up everyday, has a heartbeat and is capable of tying their own boots they are ahead of 80% of the workforce.

John C. · Jul 18, 2022

But Vetech63 isn't most other people. He is on par with any dealer scrub that comes around and the dealers charge $165 an hour. That's $343,200 a year without the incidentals. He is entitled to most of that easily. The problem here is that the naysayers are afraid the people worth that money are going to start demanding it and then they have to reduce their $300K or more a year. I have colleagues with trucks and their own businesses making $200 to $250K a year now. I know a dealer wrench making $150K and only limited by the time he wants off to be with family. I've never bought into the propaganda that any CEO is worth a million a year, let alone the many getting paid $10 million a year or more.

Welder Dave · Jul 18, 2022

How about the CEO of Value Village making over $1 million a year off of people donating items to them!

muddog1975 · Jul 18, 2022

Truck Shop said:
And some of these laptop diagnostic charges/and diagnosis is fairly worthless-in some cases.
For instance DD15-16 engine miss at idle low on power, a very common issue. All one needs
to trouble shoot the problem is having experienced level of hearing, a blind man could trouble-
shoot it. Intake valves so tight you can hear it 50' away at idle popping back through the air
cleaner. I even pointed one out to a Freightliner warranty cop. He stood there with a rather
dumb look. To hook up it costs $300, which is excessive. And that's only one.

First you need to understand mechanical aspect.

Warranty Cop...that's hilarious!!!

Vetech63 · Jul 18, 2022

Everyone makes good points. This particular job would entail everything having to do with the equipment........service, repair, parts, management. Way too much for one person.

Here's what bothers me about this job in particular. Let's say I accepted the offer................
A. I already know I can't do it all starting off. There is no mechanics to organize and schedule so I'm square behind the 8-ball.
B. Management will be seeking instant results, that's just the way they think. Everything is so far behind and in such bad shape it would take 2 years or more just to get this in a manageable form.
C. What control would I really have? I would have to run this MY way to have a chance. Could I get that kind of support?
D. I would need to hire my own people under my direction and be able to give raises as I see fit without question from management. This from a company well known to under pay and ignore raises for employees.
E. I would need old equipment and trades to run through me.
F. I believe the owner knows this, the kids running the show?..........nope. At what point are the kids going to be fully in charge.
G. I would need to get the right people at a good rate starting off. Is that something management will understand and allow?

What they want is someone that can do everything......is an impossible hire and they will figure that out soon enough. I see this as a 4-man operation at a minimum. Now IF I could get compensated where I would need it to be..........have 2 years and a lot of management patience it may be worth the gamble. Hiring people that shouldn't be repairing equipment is why they are where they are.

kshansen · Jul 18, 2022

Vetech63 said:
Everyone makes good points. This particular job would entail everything having to do with the equipment........service, repair, parts, management. Way too much for one person.

Here's what bothers me about this job in particular. Let's say I accepted the offer................

I'm glad that, as I suspected, you are looking at this "opportunity???" with eyes wide open!

I recall years ago when the state level manager of the company I worked for when someone had complained about either pay or working conditions at the quarry. This SOB made the claim that "If you don't like it here there are ten people outside the gate who would be glad to have your job!" Since I retired in 2015 every time I talked to my last boss they were struggling to find people to work there that could pass the drug test and a few months back my last boss who I believe is only in his late 50's left in frustration with the way this multi-national company was running the place. I can only imagine how it would be at a poorly run family owned company if know nothing kids took over!

joe--h · Jul 18, 2022

D. I would need to hire my own people under my direction and be able to give raises as I see fit without question from management. This from a company well known to under pay and ignore raises for employees.

Are those potential employees out there? It's not going to happen without them so maybe stay where you are doing what you can. Tell the owner how you see things and let him figure it out. Or not.

Actually he's already figured it out and see his solution, you're it. Or not.

Joe H

Truck Shop · Jul 18, 2022

This issue is exactly where my employer is now. He has spent 5 plus million erecting
a shop leasing part of it to Penske and Penske will do his service/repairs when I retire.

His tire bill is going to go through the roof just like all other companies in this boat.
His service intervals are going to have over runs till hell won't have it.
In order to keep things under control I have to figure out the drivers bad habits
his personality and attitude. Penske isn't going to bother with any of that. I know
and keep in my head the miles 65 different drivers average, who is slow who runs hard.
What he will be paying in labor will cause the overhead to fly.

One of the reasons that's been left behind about competent mechanics and part of
what caused it, is the fact the vacuum left with boomers retiring. Companies sat
on their a$$ and didn't grow their own expecting tech schools to fill the void.
What a mistake that was.

Welder Dave · Jul 18, 2022

Vetech63 said:
Everyone makes good points. This particular job would entail everything having to do with the equipment........service, repair, parts, management. Way too much for one person.

Here's what bothers me about this job in particular. Let's say I accepted the offer................
A. I already know I can't do it all starting off. There is no mechanics to organize and schedule so I'm square behind the 8-ball.
B. Management will be seeking instant results, that's just the way they think. Everything is so far behind and in such bad shape it would take 2 years or more just to get this in a manageable form.
C. What control would I really have? I would have to run this MY way to have a chance. Could I get that kind of support?
D. I would need to hire my own people under my direction and be able to give raises as I see fit without question from management. This from a company well known to under pay and ignore raises for employees.
E. I would need old equipment and trades to run through me.
F. I believe the owner knows this, the kids running the show?..........nope. At what point are the kids going to be fully in charge.
G. I would need to get the right people at a good rate starting off. Is that something management will understand and allow?

What they want is someone that can do everything......is an impossible hire and they will figure that out soon enough. I see this as a 4-man operation at a minimum. Now IF I could get compensated where I would need it to be..........have 2 years and a lot of management patience it may be worth the gamble. Hiring people that shouldn't be repairing equipment is why they are where they are.

I think what you would need is an additional budget to run the service dept. kind of like a separate division of the company. You would basically be in complete control of it. The budget for you to hire the required employee's and get what ever other tools, supplies, etc. you need would likely be well over what they are offering you. That's where I think they might realize just how bad their situation is. You tell them you need a 4 or $500K (maybe more) budget in addition to your salary to hire the right people, etc. and they'd fall out of their chairs.

Zewnten · Jul 18, 2022

I feel for you Vtech, seems like an interesting problem and you like the owner so you want to help but I think you already know the answer. Companies just don't value employees. A good employee is worth whatever you can pay him and be profitable, instead companies want to pay as little as possible and make as much profit as possible.

Equipment owners almost never value their time in repairing their own equipment so they definitly don't value the employee doing it for them, at least that seems to be the mindset so often around here. Even if a construction company splits off the equipment to a "rental" company the rental company turns around and does the same crap, it's frustrating and I think a lot of it has to do with bonuses. Don't spend all of your allowance well the suits get a percentage of it, and now it's avicious cycle.

I had a guy with a POS backhoe try to get me to fix his leaking hydraulic hoses after work. Asked him what he thought it was worth, he told me $20/hr, any more than that and he'd do it himself. I asked him how that plan was working out for him as he stood in a puddle of hydraulic oil. Then he asked me what tools he needed as it was hard to get a wrench on a lot of them, I told him that knowledge is what he's really paying for. Guy still didn't get it.

BigWrench55 · Jul 18, 2022

Zewnten said:
I feel for you Vtech, seems like an interesting problem and you like the owner so you want to help but I think you already know the answer. Companies just don't value employees. A good employee is worth whatever you can pay him and be profitable, instead companies want to pay as little as possible and make as much profit as possible.

Equipment owners almost never value their time in repairing their own equipment so they definitly don't value the employee doing it for them, at least that seems to be the mindset so often around here. Even if a construction company splits off the equipment to a "rental" company the rental company turns around and does the same crap, it's frustrating and I think a lot of it has to do with bonuses. Don't spend all of your allowance well the suits get a percentage of it, and now it's avicious cycle.

I had a guy with a POS backhoe try to get me to fix his leaking hydraulic hoses after work. Asked him what he thought it was worth, he told me $20/hr, any more than that and he'd do it himself. I asked him how that plan was working out for him as he stood in a puddle of hydraulic oil. Then he asked me what tools he needed as it was hard to get a wrench on a lot of them, I told him that knowledge is what he's really paying for. Guy still didn't get it.

Can't like this enough.

63 caveman · Jul 19, 2022

Vetech63 said:
Everyone makes good points. This particular job would entail everything having to do with the equipment........service, repair, parts, management. Way too much for one person.

Here's what bothers me about this job in particular. Let's say I accepted the offer................
A. I already know I can't do it all starting off. There is no mechanics to organize and schedule so I'm square behind the 8-ball.
B. Management will be seeking instant results, that's just the way they think. Everything is so far behind and in such bad shape it would take 2 years or more just to get this in a manageable form.
C. What control would I really have? I would have to run this MY way to have a chance. Could I get that kind of support?
D. I would need to hire my own people under my direction and be able to give raises as I see fit without question from management. This from a company well known to under pay and ignore raises for employees.
E. I would need old equipment and trades to run through me.
F. I believe the owner knows this, the kids running the show?..........nope. At what point are the kids going to be fully in charge.
G. I would need to get the right people at a good rate starting off. Is that something management will understand and allow?

What they want is someone that can do everything......is an impossible hire and they will figure that out soon enough. I see this as a 4-man operation at a minimum. Now IF I could get compensated where I would need it to be..........have 2 years and a lot of management patience it may be worth the gamble. Hiring people that shouldn't be repairing equipment is why they are where they are.

Lets just say they accept the terms....
Then lets say you pull it off and get the ship righted and under way....
I would think with this crowd 2 or 3 years down the rode they would say "Why the heck are we paying this guy so much money, nothing is broken."

I have the feeling your the kind of guy that does what you want to do and respect that but in your heart you know this is not going to be a gig you can retire from.

hosspuller · Jul 19, 2022

63 caveman said:
Lets just say they accept the terms....
Then lets say you pull it off and get the ship righted and under way....
I would think with this crowd 2 or 3 years down the rode they would say "Why the heck are we paying this guy so much money, nothing is broken."

I have the feeling your the kind of guy that does what you want to do and respect that but in your heart you know this is not going to be a gig you can retire from.

AN employment contract that covers the time span till Vetech's retirement. Would cover his objectives. And if the company goes under he's a creditor instead of just unemployed. Of course, a competent lawyer in required for him.

Truck Shop · Jul 19, 2022

Zewnten said:
Then he asked me what tools he needed as it was hard to get a wrench on a lot of them, I told him that knowledge is what he's really paying for. Guy still didn't get it.

Had a guy in the shop yesterday asking questions about riveting fenders on a Pete.
Wanted to know where to buy the rivets and wanted to use my huck gun.
{I don't loan tools especially that one but I will rent it to you with a deposit of $4,000,
he got pi$$ed and left}.

Birken Vogt · Jul 19, 2022

I'm curious about the back story. How does some random guy think he can just waltz up to a company shop and take up the mechanic's time? Do you even do outside work?

Truck Shop · Jul 19, 2022

Birken Vogt said:
I'm curious about the back story. How does some random guy think he can just waltz up to a company shop and take up the mechanic's time? Do you even do outside work?

I use to do outside work, people are crusty, something for nothing.

Truck Shop · Jul 19, 2022

Birken Vogt said:
he can just waltz up

Plus this was a farmer, farmers don't waltz. But he did have mean Texas Two Step.

JD955SC · Jul 19, 2022

Truck Shop said:
This issue is exactly where my employer is now. He has spent 5 plus million erecting
a shop leasing part of it to Penske and Penske will do his service/repairs when I retire.

His tire bill is going to go through the roof just like all other companies in this boat.
His service intervals are going to have over runs till hell won't have it.
In order to keep things under control I have to figure out the drivers bad habits
his personality and attitude. Penske isn't going to bother with any of that. I know
and keep in my head the miles 65 different drivers average, who is slow who runs hard.
What he will be paying in labor will cause the overhead to fly.

One of the reasons that's been left behind about competent mechanics and part of
what caused it, is the fact the vacuum left with boomers retiring. Companies sat
on their a$$ and didn't grow their own expecting tech schools to fill the void.
What a mistake that was.

companies only now realized in the past 6-7 years with the 2010s economic booms and boomers retiring just how screwed they are and most still don’t fully get it.

Truck Shop · Jul 19, 2022

JD955SC said:
companies only now realized in the past 6-7 years with the 2010s economic booms and boomers retiring just how screwed they are and most still don’t fully get it.

When the current owner bought the company I work for the previous owner told the current---------
{The biggest problem he would face is most of the key work force will be retiring, replacing them
won't be easy}.

Birken Vogt · Jul 19, 2022

Truck Shop said:
Plus this was a farmer, farmers don't waltz. But he did have mean Texas Two Step.

Well, there are a few things people do around here:

1. They waltz in (like they own the place)
2. They show their face (i.e. they should be too ashamed to come around)
3. They help themselves (to whatever)
4. They thought it was cute

This will be an interesting thread moving forward......

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