1985 Case 1155D engine removal

[Cat977]

B-Crazy I enjoy your Humor Very Much!! But then... I don't fined the Funnies Funny witch may make my Judgement some what Tainted. I thought you were 30 to 40!! With all this Energy. You must be Blessed and Wise because you know when to Quit!!
It's Great to see a mane Enjoy his work Soo Much!!!

I worked mostly on Large Machines in my days at the Power Plants. Most every thing was Hard Bolted to the frame and Aliened to close specs. Tinkerer saw no reason to recenter, I will bow to his experience. But I remain Perplexed.
B-Crazy have a Very Fine Day!!

 

[mekanik]

Crankshafts can fail from metal fatigue over time. Since the crank was ground to .020" undersize
I suspect there was a bearing failure and the heat from a previous bearing failure may have effected
the hardening of the crankshaft causing it to break.
I have only ever seen two engines that did not have counterweights on the crankshaft. One is the
504 Case and the other was a Ford model T engine and I have had a lot of engines apart in the last 46 years.

 

[Bobcat Crazy]

Hey Cat, I thought I was the only one that didn't find the funnies funny! But now I see there are at least two of us. I am with you, I'm not sure what that says about or judgement or my mental state! But I don't do sitcoms either that the rest of the world seem to be crazy about, they are a waste of my time. I would much rather have grease on my hands.

Power plant? Tight specs? So your background is working in the perfect world. It must be nice! I only wish I would have been smart enough in my younger years to have prepared for something like that. (There it is again, my hard headedness bites me in the bleep again!!!) With these type machines most of the time guys are working in the grease, grime, dirt and muck!

I have done a lot of working in the dirt and grease but I do not claim to have earned any of the stripes that these well experienced guys on this site have earned. I know just enough to be dangerous and I am not smart enough to know that I can't do these things so I keep doing them. Thus the signature B-Crazy!

 

[Bobcat Crazy]

Hi Mek,
Sounds like a good synopsis on broken cranks to me!

 

[Bobcat Crazy]

Okay Guys,
While I am at a stopping point trying to decide which way I will go, I checked out the flex plate (as one of you mentioned above). I didn't truly understand what a flex plate was until I took hold of it and started flexing it. Oh my, I over thought this one. So I don't know if this is normal or not but mine consist of 6 pieces, 2 smaller ones on the back next to the torq. 3 of the large ones in the middle. and 1 small in the front next to the engine. See pic below. All of the 3 large ones are cracked so which ever way I go back with it, it will have new ones. I hope these can still be found for this model. I am having a little trouble finding a crank, but I am still looking.

I have a few days off for working the weekend and the holiday so I get to play extra hard this week! Goody, goody!

 

[Bobcat Crazy]

Still looking the crank, have one dealer that is supposed to call me back tomorrow.

Just thought I would show you the water pump , I don't think a certified mechanic installed this. Or a certified shade tree like me . This must have been install be a jackleg. !!!

It is amazing what you can find after washing down a loader engine with a hot water power washer!

See pic below and enjoy!
B-Crazy

 

[Tinkerer]

Huge mistake made by using that much RTV on the water pump.

Tinkerer saw no reason to recenter, I will bow to his experience. But I remain Perplexed.
B-Crazy have a Very Fine Day!!

No need to be perplexed Cat977.
What I said was that leaving the convertor bolted to the flywheel eliminates the need to recenter them.
If they are separated it is then critical to recenter them.
Bobcat Crazy; call Dale Wiess for parts questions.No one knows more about anything Case than Dale.
He is a second generation Case dealer now retired from the dealership but still selling new OEM and aftermarket parts.
http://www.e-backhoeparts.com/

 

[Cat977]

I'm really enjoying following along with this Project. The Wings of Experience and the Humor and Hard Work of B-Crazy!!
I am still in a State of Perplexion on this Drive Train. Most small Tractors use the drive train as the frame is this Similar?

 

[Bobcat Crazy]

Huge mistake made by using that much RTV on the water pump.

No need to be perplexed Cat977.
What I said was that leaving the convertor bolted to the flywheel eliminates the need to recenter them.
If they are separated it is then critical to recenter them.
Bobcat Crazy; call Dale Wiess for parts questions.No one knows more about anything Case than Dale.
He is a second generation Case dealer now retired from the dealership but still selling new OEM and aftermarket parts.
http://www.e-backhoeparts.com/

Hey Tink thanks! I will try to hit him up on the email address you listed. I would not know how to call him.

 

[Bobcat Crazy]

Hey Tink thanks! I will try to hit him up on the email address you listed. I would not know how to call him.

Okay, okay I clicked on the link and it took me to his site. Man I am some good at speaking (or typing) before thinking.

 

[Bobcat Crazy]

I'm really enjoying following along with this Project. The Wings of Experience and the Humor and Hard Work of B-Crazy!!
I am still in a State of Perplexion on this Drive Train. Most small Tractors use the drive train as the frame is this Similar?

Hi Cat!
This is an 1155D track loader, but I feel like you already know this, it weighs about 30,000 lbs. I'm not sure what you are asking, but it may be because I don't know enough on this subject to understand.

This is nothing like a farm tractor but I think I'm missing what you are asking.

Thanks!
B-Crazy

 

[Cat977]

Hi Ya B-Crazy!!
I am probably not asking the Question well. Is the Engine bolted to the torque converter, then TC bolted to the Transmission, then trans, bolted to the Bevel gear box, then BG bolted to the final drive. Basically then the frame is attached to this Drive Assembly? My machine has a drive shaft in it. The Cat 955 has a spot with flexible pucks but they are out in the open. Your flex disk is hidden and seems like it would be very had to center without using shims under the engine ect..... A bit of a silly question really, just curious.
Keep going on the Hard to do stuff B-Crazy! Your Smart Enough to ask Questions!
You have a Fine Evening!

 

[Bobcat Crazy]

Hi Ya B-Crazy!!
I am probably not asking the Question well. Is the Engine bolted to the torque converter, then TC bolted to the Transmission, then trans, bolted to the Bevel gear box, then BG bolted to the final drive. Basically then the frame is attached to this Drive Assembly? My machine has a drive shaft in it. The Cat 955 has a spot with flexible pucks but they are out in the open. Your flex disk is hidden and seems like it would be very had to center without using shims under the engine ect..... A bit of a silly question really, just curious.
Keep going on the Hard to do stuff B-Crazy! Your Smart Enough to ask Questions!
You have a Fine Evening!

Cat,
I am not sure I know enough to answer your question. I have not dropped the belly pan behind the torq so I can't tell you if mine has a drive shaft or not. It seems I remember someone mentioning dropping the drive shaft in the earlier parts of this thread as they were talking about pulling everything together but I have read so much it could have been something else I was reading somewhere.

I went back early this morning while I was waiting for it to get light and skimmed through the whole thread (I woke up at 3:30a and couldn't go back to sleep) but I was looking for something else so I don't remember seeing it this morning but it could be in here.

 

[Bobcat Crazy]

Huge mistake made by using that much RTV on the water pump.

No need to be perplexed Cat977.
What I said was that leaving the convertor bolted to the flywheel eliminates the need to recenter them.
If they are separated it is then critical to recenter them.
Bobcat Crazy; call Dale Wiess for parts questions.No one knows more about anything Case than Dale.
He is a second generation Case dealer now retired from the dealership but still selling new OEM and aftermarket parts.
http://www.e-backhoeparts.com/

Hey Tink,
I did check out the site and it said the crank was on backorder. I called and didn't get anyone but they had probably already closed for the day when I had the chance to call.

I did get a quote from another company I had contacted through email yesterday, (I don't know if I can say the name on here as I am not sure how that works with this forum site). The quote was for the crank, the bearings, and a full gasket and seal set for just a little over $2K and they said they can have it to me in 3 business days. That sounds very reasonable to me so I will probably order that in the morning. The crank that comes from this company will be turned .010 on both rods and mains, so I feel pretty good about that.

One company said they could get the crank but the crank alone was almost $2K from that supplier. With the tax and shipping it would have been over 2k for just the crank. Needless to say I did not pursue that one.

I will still order some other items from Dale as his site looks like he will have access to about anything else I will need.

Thanks for telling me about him!

 

[Bobcat Crazy]

Cat,
I am not sure I know enough to answer your question. I have not dropped the belly pan behind the torq so I can't tell you if mine has a drive shaft or not. It seems I remember someone mentioning dropping the drive shaft in the earlier parts of this thread as they were talking about pulling everything together but I have read so much it could have been something else I was reading somewhere.

I went back early this morning while I was waiting for it to get light and skimmed through the whole thread (I woke up at 3:30a and couldn't go back to sleep) but I was looking for something else so I don't remember seeing it this morning but it could be in here.

Cat I just dropped back to the beginning and it was gggraham that was giving me the quick rundown of how to go about pulling the engine. According to him it does have a drive shaft.

For some unknown reason I was thinking the torq and pump powered everything through hydraulics. I guess that was just something I dreamed up out of the blue.
I do suffer from creative thinking some times, I guess that is one of the times I fell into my own way of thinking.

 

[Cat977]

That is How "I Think" most all are powered now, at least the Loaders. No Torque Converters just a pump for Hydraulics and one for Hydrostatic Drive with a Hydraulic Motor on each side, the plus is Counter Rotation! The Crank and parts don't sound Too Bad. Do you have a dial indicator?

 

[Bobcat Crazy]

Good morning Cat!
No I do not have a dial indicator. I assume I will need this to time the engine is that correct? I saw timing marks on the crank gear and the cam gear but I didn't see any marks on the injector pump gear.

They could be there but I doubt because they were not easily seen so I doubt there are any. I have timed engines for years over many of my ventures so I realize the importance of correct timing.

Every time I built a new/different type (to me) engine I have to research the proper way so as not to kill a newly rebuilt engine.

I can usually order things like the dial indicator from the internet, so if you have a site link for a good one I would like to have it. I have ordered a parts manual that should be here any day now.

I still need to order a shop manual before I start the reassembly. If you have a link for that I am open to that as well.

Thanks!
B-Crazy because I am and most of the time it helps me take day to day life without getting overcome by things I can do nothing about !
It is kind of like: "You don't have to be crazy to work here but it helps if you are just a little Crazy"

 

[bam1968]

It looks like Ebay has some service manuals for your machine.

 

[Cat977]

Well yes I'm a little Crazy among other Things. I Love to Laugh and will make Myself the Target of a Joke if I think it Funny Enough. Look close at that Injection Pump Gear I would expect some kind timing marks or maybe you put in a locking pin. Regretfully you probably Know more about Engines than I do. bam1968 !!! has a good Idea on Manuals, I like Originals because the printing is better than after market ones. Ebay has been the best place for me to find one, but get someone with a lot of good reviews and says and looks like an Original. A dial indicator may be handy later. If your curious ahead of time Google (Soft foot on machines). If that Engine didn't have rubber mounts it causes me to wonder....
Best of All the Luck

 

[Cat977]

I'm Glad to Hear of a Fellow that stays Positive as he Walks this Life +++. Good to hear you are getting a manual before Reassembly B-Crazy, I'll Try to help. You've been getting some Real Good Help!!! from some of these Great Guys on This Site!!!. So anyway While you are waiting for Parts.....I can Truly see how a damaged crank, with no counter weights and ground .020 under can easily break. But I Truly can't hold back from Any and All Reasonsones Why it Might Break, and what is the evidence for failure. I am out of my element on these machines!! So you Guys that Did earn your Stripes please forgive me!!!

Alinement!! Proper unstressed alignment is what kept my job easy over the years. Yeah getting all the sizes perfect or close was important, but it was alinement was what kept the machine running for the long hall. I was Spoiled, used computers and latter Lasers. The Problem I was thinking of is Soft Foot mainly. Easy check with a Dial Indicator. You can get somewhere with a feeler gage. No shims under the motor causes some concern. Unless it uses rubber Mounts.

B-Crazy I love Your attitude!!! I'm going to Run out in My Mind for a Little Bit, Please give me a little Grace and I'll settle back in my place Soon.

The Flex Plate is like the Flex Disc's couplings I used on High Speed Couplings (Those before me.. Faulk Gear Couplings). I used a Altra Flex where I could (they were much easier, cheaper, and more forgiving)( Those Before Woods). The Flex Disc was good in High RPM (with Great Balance) 5K, 7K ect.... They are soo Stiff They would about pull you into Horizontal Alignment before bolting down. They would Crack, Break, and Ruin your Equipment if They weren't Lined up Good.

Now for Soft Foot!!! Even for Big Heavy Machines the leverage of a Bolt can Twist a Gear Case so Bad as to pull the bearings, Gears, Crankshaft out of Alinement so Bad, You will Destroy it over Time. Even If Component to Component says the Alinement is Good. Say a Fresh Engine Rebuild is twisted in the frame so Bad it Wrecks the Center Crank Bearing and Nukes the Crank or over Heats it. Then you Add to that a stiff unforgiving Flex Plate.

One thing that sounds good is it was running when shut down. Also without injectors it turned over freely. Of course it did open up after the Crank Broke!

Can't say What Happened, But I sure Hate Fixing something Twice!!

Keep that Good Attitude B-Crazy