NEW Cat 150 AWD

[big ben]

I wonder why they don't claim that? That's impressive!!!! I'll research that more. I can't believe they don't brag about that!!!


If that's the case then you should run with it engaged all the time. You'll have HP between a 14 which is 38 more HP and a 16 which is 90 more HP. Very impressive!!!!

They do. 35 HP

https://s7d2.scene7.com/is/content/Caterpillar/CM20131122-77598-21400

 

[ovrszd]

I think the paint dabs would be at the time the bolts were installed. A couple loose fasteners is one thing but clearing a code to deliver a machine is just wrong, especially on a very expensive machine. Great the machine is up running finally but Cat should be offering something for their screw up and your downtime.

I agree, apples/oranges. Although I was disappointed I didn't bitch about the oil leaks as much as I did active codes.

If I understood correctly, to get the machine running they robbed an ECM off a different 150 that his organization had just purchased? So as an organization, they still have a machine down....

 

[ovrszd]

They do. 35 HP

https://s7d2.scene7.com/is/content/Caterpillar/CM20131122-77598-21400

Thanks for the link!!!

I understand there's a 35HP diff between a 150 and a 150AWD. JD is similar.

That's not what 20/80 was told and that's not he is experiencing. Flip the AWD on and HP boosts. That's what I had never heard of before. And totally surprised CAT doesn't mention that in any of their data. That's a huge selling benefit. And as I said previously, why not simply run in AWD all the time to take advantage of that HP gain?

 

[Welder Dave]

You would think hyd. fittings should have the paint dabs. Regardless the reason(s) a code was cleared on the OP's machine and the machine was down after only 35 hours related to that code. That in itself isn't terrible but the machine being down for 9 days while they throw parts at it and not offering a loaner or other solution is not acceptable in my opinion. That's why I think Cat and/or the dealer should be offering a parts or service credit. It would sure help repair the relationship with the customer.

 

[Welder Dave]

I agree, apples/oranges. Although I was disappointed I didn't bitch about the oil leaks as much as I did active codes.

If I understood correctly, to get the machine running they robbed an ECM off a different 150 that his organization had just purchased? So as an organization, they still have a machine down....

It might have been better to just swap the whole machine after day 2 of the downed machine but maybe that wasn't possible?

 

[big ben]

Thanks for the link!!!

I understand there's a 35HP diff between a 150 and a 150AWD. JD is similar.

That's not what 20/80 was told and that's not he is experiencing. Flip the AWD on and HP boosts. That's what I had never heard of before. And totally surprised CAT doesn't mention that in any of their data. That's a huge selling benefit. And as I said previously, why not simply run in AWD all the time to take advantage of that HP gain?

The 150 has a 183 hp C7. The 150 AWD is a 213 hp C9.

Then further down it says this, which I assume is what your referencing and I read as more HP when in AWD ?

“AWD automatically increases your horsepower up to an
additional 26 kW (35 hp) to maximize your power to the ground.”

 

[big ben]

You would think hyd. fittings should have the paint dabs. Regardless the reason(s) a code was cleared on the OP's machine and the machine was down after only 35 hours related to that code. That in itself isn't terrible but the machine being down for 9 days while they throw parts at it and not offering a loaner or other solution is not acceptable in my opinion. That's why I think Cat and/or the dealer should be offering a parts or service credit. It would sure help repair the relationship with the customer.

Yes but anyone of those days it could have been running again. No one said “ok it’s down for 9 days we think !” How
many spare machines do you see on lots ? Would you pay full price for a new 150 if it had 50 hrs and paint all off the blade because it helped someone else ? Not unheard of to give loaners/rentals but again maybe if the trans blew and it was clearly going to be down for weeks from day 1.

You say it had parts thrown at it, which would you have changed first ? Now there is another down machine to get this one going. Sounds like they were trying and checked/changed the first and most probable items first. Was it perfect ? No. But do we know all the facts ? No.

And just throwing money at customers for down time is not truly a good solution. Parts supply/network, supply chain, dealer training, tech support and troubleshooting material is what needs to get focused on. That gets machines running and owners happy not giving $1000 a day just because it might make the owner feel better.

The gap between what is involved in fixing a fully electronic state of the art machines and what the average joe knows/understands is wider than ever and growing daily it appears.

 

[20/80]

-I bet the paint marks are from showing it was installed and torqued not someone else checking every bolt and hose on the machine a second time
-It is not a dealers job to check every bolt and all 500 hoses for tightness on a PDI. Basic checks like fluids, switch’s, lights, computer setting etc.
- Not sure anyone knows the whole story including myself but you say it had 1 hit for a code before delivery. This is not uncommon and if the machine has no active codes during the PDI then the dealer can’t run the machine for hours until it “might” happen again. But for example if it was emissions code then run and quick emissions system test and if it passes move on.
- At the end of most Cat TS procedures after everything has been checked it says “ECM May have failed but this is unlikely go through the entire TS process again”. ECM fail quick (like yours) or seem to last years. An inactive code, machine that won’t run more than 30 seconds because of derates and had a failed ECM are about the hardest combination to troubleshoot. Rare that the signs ever even point to a failed ECM.
- This is not a order 3 box’s of every electrical part cab to rear grill and replace until fixed kind of deal. Wish it was but not the way the world works.
-10 on board computers and thousands of feet of wire and 500 connectors the game has changed. We may think it sounds easy after it’s fixed or that it should have been done this way or that but process and steps are in place for good reason ! Customer, dealer and Cat alike. YMMV

Yes steps are in place for good reason, the dealer should have followed them.

 

[Nige]

- At the end of most Cat TS procedures after everything has been checked it says “ECM May have failed but this is unlikely go through the entire TS process again”. ECM fail quick (like yours) or seem to last years. An inactive code, machine that won’t run more than 30 seconds because of derates and had a failed ECM are about the hardest combination to troubleshoot. Rare that the signs ever even point to a failed ECM.

This - with brass knobs on. Every Cat electronic troubleshooting procedure written contains "The ECM has failed - This is unlikely. Run the TS procedure again." as the last item on the list of possible causes for the particular Code or whatever.

Often the only way to get something that is giving intermittent issues (always a bear to troubleshoot because it never acts up when the mechanic is on the machine) is to WORK the machine, not play around wit it in the dealer's yard. Stress, temperature, vibration, system cycling, etc, all help in getting whatever is failing intermittently to fail completely and that makes the diganostic process far easier.

Codes can appear after the machine has left the production line for all sorts of reasons. If a Code was simply Logged (not active) I'm sure any of my guys would simply erase it and move on without a second thought. Sometimes Codes appear after what can only be described as divine intervention because nobody laid a hand on the machine.

I am a big believer in using the Polaroid principle as a 1st step in cases of intermittent electronic issues.
And what is the Polaroid Principle I hear you ask.?
"Be patient and let it develop".............

 

[20/80]

Yes but anyone of those days it could have been running again. No one said “ok it’s down for 9 days we think !” How
many spare machines do you see on lots ? Would you pay full price for a new 150 if it had 50 hrs and paint all off the blade because it helped someone else ? Not unheard of to give loaners/rentals but again maybe if the trans blew and it was clearly going to be down for weeks from day 1.

You say it had parts thrown at it, which would you have changed first ? Now there is another down machine to get this one going. Sounds like they were trying and checked/changed the first and most probable items first. Was it perfect ? No. But do we know all the facts ? No.

And just throwing money at customers for down time is not truly a good solution. Parts supply/network, supply chain, dealer training, tech support and troubleshooting material is what needs to get focused on. That gets machines running and owners happy not giving $1000 a day just because it might make the owner feel better.

The gap between what is involved in fixing a fully electronic state of the art machines and what the average joe knows/understands is wider than ever and growing daily it appears.

Any of those 9 day's it could have been running again? really, should have got you to trouble shoot her on the first day, the machine was at level three shut down, 120% on the filter and wouldn't ignite for regen, even when mobile bypassed the system on his laptop forcing it to regen, then after the mobile went through Cats process including ordering parts and changing them one by one on the 8th day Cat directed him to the ECM, replaced the ECM late in the day on day 9, which was robbed from one of our new machines sitting at our depot, would have been another 2 day's to get a new ECM in. all this should have been troubleshooted and fixed before we took ownership.

 

[big ben]

Any of those 9 day's it could have been running again? really, should have got you to trouble shoot her on the first day, the machine was at level three shut down, 120% on the filter and wouldn't ignite for regen, even when mobile bypassed the system on his laptop forcing it to regen, then after the mobile went through Cats process including ordering parts and changing them one by one on the 8th day Cat directed him to the ECM, replaced the ECM late in the day on day 9, which was robbed from one of our new machines sitting at our depot, would have been another 2 day's to get a new ECM in. all this should have been troubleshooted and fixed before we took ownership.

Sorry you missed my point. By saying it could have been running any day I meant as each part got replaced it could have fixed it. This was not a min 9 day troubleshooting process but step by step (part by part).

 

[Welder Dave]

After 2 days down, maybe they should have looked into a donor machine as it apparently wasn't a simple fix (at least wasn't initially). Maybe the field tech should have been supplied with all the parts that may fix it instead of all the wait time getting different parts one at a time. Parts not needed could be taken back. That would have saved considerable time. The fact is it took 9 days to fix and the customer suffered. There should be some kind of compensation for the customer. There's also another machine the customer can't use because they robbed the ECM of it.

 

[20/80]

Well on the other side of the coin guy's the machine is working good, it has great pulling and cutting power in AWD, you have to be careful or you will have alot of material to deal with in a hurry, not used to a tight machine sense a while, things that kinda bother me is lack of seeing clearly behind you, i'm used to seeing what your laying out using your mirror or just turning around in your seat, the mirrors on this machine only see each side, the camera that shows behind you is not accurate and the height of the rear engine compartment blocks your vision if you turn around in your seat, also not able to see the center of the blade when spreading, you would never know you were dragging a rock unless you felt it or seen the smoke from it, I can't wait to get this machine in the ditch, I have a couple of roads to rebuild and do a make over on just waiting for things to dry up alittle more, I will post pictures of before and after and along the way, she will get a good work out in this material.

 

[ovrszd]

It might have been better to just swap the whole machine after day 2 of the downed machine but maybe that wasn't possible?

Supposedly you have 30 days to reject a machine. We tried. That's when the "legaleze" talk began. No one from the dealership or JD has contacted us since.

I will never accept a new machine again until we have ran it a day. Every problem our machine had showed up the first day.

 

[ovrszd]

The 150 has a 183 hp C7. The 150 AWD is a 213 hp C9.

Then further down it says this, which I assume is what your referencing and I read as more HP when in AWD ?

“AWD automatically increases your horsepower up to an
additional 26 kW (35 hp) to maximize your power to the ground.”

Yeah, that's what I am referring to. And it seems that's what 20/80 is saying. An easily noticeable difference in power when AWD is engaged. So why wouldn't the operator run it engaged all the time?

On a JD machine the HP to run the AWD is used all the time. It constantly applies pressure to the front wheel motors. There's no difference felt by the operator. It's not even noticeable when you accelerate the front wheel speed.

Does CAT not function that way? If not, then that explains the HP change. The computer compensates for the added load of suddenly having to pressurize the AWD by elevating the HP. And if that's the case it would do no good to run in AWD all the time because the load increased.

Thanks for your thorough explanations!!!

 

[ovrszd]

Well on the other side of the coin guy's the machine is working good, it has great pulling and cutting power in AWD, you have to be careful or you will have alot of material to deal with in a hurry, not used to a tight machine sense a while, things that kinda bother me is lack of seeing clearly behind you, i'm used to seeing what your laying out using your mirror or just turning around in your seat, the mirrors on this machine only see each side, the camera that shows behind you is not accurate and the height of the rear engine compartment blocks your vision if you turn around in your seat, also not able to see the center of the blade when spreading, you would never know you were dragging a rock unless you felt it or seen the smoke from it, I can't wait to get this machine in the ditch, I have a couple of roads to rebuild and do a make over on just waiting for things to dry up alittle more, I will post pictures of before and after and along the way, she will get a good work out in this material.

Well versed report.

This is my first AWD machine. I also noticed it's easy to move excessive material. I was accustomed to gauging the material being moved by wheel traction. That's all changed with AWD.

Your comments about visibility rearward are spot on. First thing I noticed when demoing a 140 and a 12 was poor rearward visibility. In the JD I never look over my shoulder. I never use the in cab rearview mirror. I don't have a camera. I get all the visibility I need using the outside mirrors. Although you can't see or feel it, I think the JD mirrors are slightly convexed. Large range of horizontal vision.

With a little leaning side to side I can see my entire moldboard. I sympathize with your comment about a rock. That really aggravates me.

I started in my machine with moving dirt building/elevating a roadbed. You are really going to like the AWD. Cutting a roadbank, cleaning a ditch, moving dirt, all of those things are more productive.

I had a guy tell me the other day that the CAT salesman says in ten years they won't sell machines without AWD. I think he's right. Two years in and I'd be lost without it.

 

[20/80]

One of my concerns is hydraulic hoses in the front that run the front drives getting hooked and torn off also grease lines, will have to be careful when over the bank, the material I have to work with is less then ideal, lots of ledge to get over, boulders rocks, sticks to get removed and shake out and soft spots to get to the material you can use for the road, finding traction for back sloping was a chore in my 140H, hoping this AWD will change things in the traction department and moving material in these conditions, I will soon know what NOT to do. LOL

 

[Nige]

One of my concerns is hydraulic hoses in the front that run the front drives getting hooked and torn off also grease lines, will have to be careful when over the bank, the material I have to work with is less then ideal, lots of ledge to get over, boulders rocks, sticks to get removed and shake out and soft spots to get to the material you can use for the road, finding traction for back sloping was a chore in my 140H, hoping this AWD will change things in the traction department and moving material in these conditions, I will soon know what NOT to do. LOL

Take a couple of photos of the front axle. There may be some optional (additional) guards available that no-one thought to order. I know that was the case with our 16Ms when they were new. See below, taken from the Optional Equipment list . I wonder what the "axle hose guard" is.?

After having steering cylinder hoses ripped off a few times as a result of grader operators trying to fo the work of a D6 using a machine with the blade in the centre instead of at the front the guards were soon procured and installed.......

 

[Tones]

I have a grin when I read this thread and you fellas acknowledging the benefits of 6 wheel drive. I grew up with these gadgets when they were new.

 

[20/80]

Take a couple of photos of the front axle. There may be some optional (additional) guards available that no-one thought to order. I know that was the case with our 16Ms when they were new. See below, taken from the Optional Equipment list . I wonder what the "axle hose guard" is.?
View attachment 241361
After having steering cylinder hoses ripped off a few times as a result of grader operators trying to fo the work of a D6 using a machine with the blade in the centre instead of at the front the guards were soon procured and installed.......

Thanks Nige, there is some sort of a steel guard mounted on the inside of the front wheels, not sure if that's the one in your list, the hoses that run to the front drive are held up in place what looks like a leather strap, I'm afraid it wouldn't take much to rip that off, You can see the guard next to the wheel also those leather straps, if this picture loads right