Cat 215 3304 no power under load

[Dgreen4298]

i have a cat 215 with a 3304 engine that has low power under load. Starts right up and runs great until you put it under load then it bogs down and will kill the engine if you don't let up. Doesn't mater if you are digging or traveling. Changed the fuel filter and strainer. Fuel primer pump seems to not do anything when pumped, it was hard to prime the system after changing filters. Have not replace the feed hoses from the tank because I really don't think that is the problem.

 

[DEMLONE70]

Serial number

 

[Dgreen4298]

95z00480

 

[kshansen]

Ok first question. Is this a new machine to you?

If not did it run good at one time and then develop this problem?

How did the strainer and filter look when you removed them?

Did you drain moisture out of the fuel tank?

That part labeled #2 in that block on the bottom of the tank is the drain valve, should take a 3/4 inch wrench and there is a approx. 1/8 hole in the side of that block near where the #5 is pointing that the water or fuel should come out. Only need to open a couple turns to drain.

I would probably unhook fuel line going in to the strainer and install a short hose stuck into a five gallon can of clean fuel and try running it that way. If it then has good power you know problem is in line to tank or tank pickup tube.

That priming pump should pick up fuel good unless there is a problem with it. Could have bad seals and be sucking air.

 

[Dgreen4298]

New to me, yes and no, I have had the machine for about 5years but never really used it till now, I would just start it up every month and let it idle for a while. Starts right up even in the freezing weather.

I have not drained the water from the fuel tank. strainer looked fine and I didn't cut open the old filter but I didn't notice anything dirty about it either.

I will try the bucket of fuel test Before I replace the fuel supply and return hose from the tank. I was wondering if that priming pump could be the problem? When I changed the filter I had to pull fuel to the injection pump with a hand pump by taking the line off. When I pump the primer there is zero resistance felt, like it is sucking nothing, so I pulled it off to inspect it and it would pull suction on my skin. I will have to order a new one.

 

[john hofer]

Governor in fuel pump not working

 

[kshansen]

When I pump the primer there is zero resistance felt, like it is sucking nothing, so I pulled it off to inspect it and it would pull suction on my skin. I will have to order a new one.

The priming pump should have two check valves in it. One on suction side and one on outlet side. Also a seal on the piston attached to the plunger shaft. If that seal is bad it could be sucking air.

Does engine respond to throttle? Rev up and down? Or just sit there at low idle?

A short video if possible showing it starting and trying to work might give some ideas too!

 

[Dgreen4298]

Is there anyway to visually see the governor adjust fuel to the engine? It acts like it it is not increasing rpm at all.

 

[kshansen]

Is there anyway to visually see the governor adjust fuel to the engine? It acts like it it is not increasing rpm at all.

These maybe some very basic questions but not being there in person one can not know what is happening without some very good feed back from those that are there.

If you move the throttle lever from slow to full speed does the linkage on the fuel injection pump move?
If you do this with engine running does it change the rpms of the engine?

 

[Dgreen4298]

I have to go check but I don't think there is any other linkage besides the one that the throttle cable hooks to, it does have full travel with the cable hooked up and disconnected.

 

[john hofer]

The only way to check the governor is to remove pump.
I would rule out the fuel supply before I would service pump.$$$$

 

[kshansen]

I have to go check but I don't think there is any other linkage besides the one that the throttle cable hooks to, it does have full travel with the cable hooked up and disconnected.

But does the engine rev up and down when you move that lever in the cab? How about removing the connection at the pump and work it by hand? Just trying to be sure there is a problem in the pump/governor and not a broken control cable or clevis pin that fell out.

Like I said I/we are not there, so something that seems simple to you can be hard for someone half way across the country or on the other side of the world know with out asking several questions!

 

[Nige]

While agreeing that the engine side needs to be diagnosed (or eliminated as a root cause) before moving on, I note that nobody has yet suggested the possibility that the variable displacement implement pumps are not destroking for some reason and this is what is lugging the engine down..?

 

[kshansen]

While agreeing that the engine side needs to be diagnosed (or eliminated as a root cause) before moving on, I note that nobody has yet suggested the possibility that the variable displacement implement pumps are not destroking for some reason and this is what is lugging the engine down..?

Very good point! It is easy to get tunnel vision when trying to diagnose a problem and miss the real problem.

This is also one of the problems of trying to remotely trouble shoot via text messages. Just about anyone familiar with the "normal" sounds of a diesel engine would in a second recognize the sounds of an engine struggling against a load.

Also another reason why I asked if there was a possibility of a video of the machine running!

 

[funwithfuel]

While agreeing that the engine side needs to be diagnosed (or eliminated as a root cause) before moving on, I note that nobody has yet suggested the possibility that the variable displacement implement pumps are not destroking for some reason and this is what is lugging the engine down..?

Wouldn't a stroked pump cause hard start/no start? I'm questioning air filter, turbo charger, boost pipes etc., once confirmed I'd chase fuel lines after verifying throttle linkage is functioning. Pull intake pipe/hose from turbo, check compressor wheel/shaft. Is there oil in the piping?
Does she smoke when bogging? What color, black, white or grey? What is your full throttle no load rpm? How long will it sustain that engine speed with no load?
Not familiar with Scaterpillar, is this pump line and nozzle, electronic fuel injection or HEUI? Have you checked oil level, are there error codes displayed?

 

[Dgreen4298]

Thanks for the help. Engine does rev up and down with throttle in cab and with it disconnected. Lever on governor is getting full travel. air filter is new. Turbo has no slop in it, spins good. I have not checked full throttle rpm but I was thinking that it sounds like it should run faster but I do not know for sure, it is definitely not a low rpm but may not be high enough, I will have to figure out a way to see what it is. Engine does not smoke when bogging. It will run all day at any speed with no load. machine is not computerized, all mechanical. Starts right up, maybe two strokes.

I will get a video soon

 

[Dgreen4298]

I was looking online and found a post about a constant bleed valve but cannot find it in the manual, it is only in the low power trouble shooting and says to check or replace it, it does not say where it is or what it does. The post I saw says that if it were bad I would not be able to prime fuel with primer pump, which I cannot do. I have a new primer that is going on today.

 

[Dgreen4298]

since this machine has two main pumps, one for travel and one for boom and swivel would a pump problem only cause bogging when digging or traveling but not both. By the way it seems to travel straight fine but when making hard turns it Boggs more often.

 

[john hofer]

This is what I would do:
Buy a electric fuel pump and 5 gallon Jerry can,bypass ALL fuel suppy lines including filters, hook electric pump direct to your Cat engine and run engine under load if it works than you know it's the fuel supply sys.
You familiar will removing fuel pump?

 

[kshansen]

I was looking online and found a post about a constant bleed valve but cannot find it in the manual, it is only in the low power trouble shooting and says to check or replace it, it does not say where it is or what it does. The post I saw says that if it were bad I would not be able to prime fuel with primer pump, which I cannot do. I have a new primer that is going on today.

Well I'm not seeing anything in the parts break downs showing a separate part but it may actually be part of one of the fittings and not called out as just that. In the drawing below it is pointed out as item #11 and sure appears to be right in the area where the return line to the tank is attached. Like I said it maybe part of the fitting the line is connected to.