Here we go again 140M DOWN

[Fatgraderman]

My limited experience with these newer machines is those injector codes are more of a “misfire” code then an injector issue.

 

[20/80]

Back in the early 80's I worked at the Cat dealer and had the opportunity to see many things. Cat equipment was just about rock solid, stupid simple, tough and made to last. We started to hear about electronics on the way and ask why? Well I left to begin my next life but kept tabs on what was happening with friends. Although the electronics can do some neat functions in my opinion much of it is not needed. I would think if a manufacturer would get back to the basics they could really hit a home run.

I agree, the electronics do have some neat features but can be way more troublesome, yes codes can point you in the right direction but try finding a broken wire that is completely messing up your ECM on and off which can affect everything, mechanical was a lot more reliable I think, the fuel was either on or off.

 

[20/80]

My limited experience with these newer machines is those injector codes are more of a “misfire” code then an injector issue.

I find on those C7's engines the H pump causes a lot of troubles with the injectors misfiring, on our first M series we went through a basket of injectors before Cat changed the H pump and cleaned the head, that seemed to cure the misfiring, on our 12m2 with the C7 this was happening shortly after we got her around 6-700 hours, CAT just kept replacing the bad injectors, worth noting, the injectors on our first M straight out of the factory, the injectors were not Cat they were aftermarket.

 

[20/80]

Well from what I was told Cat was requesting to adjust the valves in our 12m2 with the C7, some how this request went on the wayside and because of that the engine failure happened, somehow the rockers got misaligned and bent the pushrods, just the other day we had Cat adjust the valves in our new 140m{C7} then shortly after putting it back to work the engine would take to shaking violently to the point that the operator shut it down, we are now waiting for Cat to return, more down time, I 'm not sure what to think about all of this this, I have over 12000 hours on my engine and has never been touched.

 

[Fatgraderman]

Well from what I was told Cat was requesting to adjust the valves in our 12m2 with the C7, some how this request went on the wayside and because of that the engine failure happened, somehow the rockers got misaligned and bent the pushrods, just the other day we had Cat adjust the valves in our new 140m{C7} then shortly after putting it back to work the engine would take to shaking violently to the point that the operator shut it down, we are now waiting for Cat to return, more down time, I 'm not sure what to think about all of this this, I have over 12000 hours on my engine and has never been touched.

I wonder if it threw a bridge? Just a push rod on one cylinder? Or several? Isn’t the 12m2 a C9? We had a 3176 where after a valve set, it got smoking and running rough. When the mechanic went back into it, he had to go looking for a push rod. I was wondering if it was 360* out when he set it the first time.

 

[20/80]

I wonder if it threw a bridge? Just a push rod on one cylinder? Or several? Isn’t the 12m2 a C9? We had a 3176 where after a valve set, it got smoking and running rough. When the mechanic went back into it, he had to go looking for a push rod. I was wondering if it was 360* out when he set it the first time.

That's more than I can tell you, its in mother Cats hands now, its a C7 for sure, I run a 140H with the 3176, valves never been touched, has been a very good machine so far, just over 12000 hrs on my girl, would take her over a new M series any day.

 

[Nige]

Simple fact is that if anything goes t1ts-up in the top end the first thing that Uncle Cat is going to ask is for confirmation that the valve adjustment checks have been carried out at the recommended intervals. Doesn't mean to say that any adjustments have to be changed, simply checked that they are within limits at the specified intervals. Without that info, you're flying solo.......

The last good grader engine Cat made was the 3406 IMHO. When the 16H went to the 3196 it all went downhill in a hurry.

 

[Fatgraderman]

Simple fact is that if anything goes t1ts-up in the top end the first thing that Uncle Cat is going to ask is for confirmation that the valve adjustment checks have been carried out at the recommended intervals. Doesn't mean to say that any adjustments have to be changed, simply checked that they are within limits at the specified intervals. Without that info, you're flying solo.......

The last good grader engine Cat made was the 3406 IMHO. When the 16H went to the 3196 it all went downhill in a hurry.

3406 had it’s reputation for a reason. I was surprised when the new emissions came out in 2002, that Cat didn’t go to a version of the 3406e like was in the D8R.

 

[Nige]

In the 16H for no other reason than the mahoosive amount of engine braking it provided. The switch to the 3196 started the trend of burning brakes up simply because it didn't have the engine braking the 3406 had.

 

[20/80]

What gets me is that the C7 engines have been very troublesome yet Cat continues to use them and put more lipstick on a pig, I just can't imagine a private contractor using a M series with a C7 engine, not sure on the C9's, even the cost and downtime of having Cat servicing at the proper intervals would be a nightmare for a private contractor that's working a job with the grader, the money you pay and Cats sales pitch at the time of purchase for a new and improved Cat M series you are led to believe that you should not have 1 thing go wrong for at least 5 years with normal maintenance done by the operator, A Cat salesman told me one time that Cats motto is just sell the machine fix it in the field, just get it sold, very sad, can you imagine a private contractor buying a used M series that has no warranty left and depending on it? they would go bankrupt trying to keep it running.

 

[Mark250]

i could be wrong but I was under the impression that all the 12M2 ran the C9.3 engine and the 12M early engines were C6.6 and the later 12M was the C7 .is it possible that the wrong valve set procedure was used between the C6.6 and the C7 engine as the valve setting procedure for the C6.6 is completely different from standard
Mark

 

[Mark250]

I find on those C7's engines the H pump causes a lot of troubles with the injectors misfiring, on our first M series we went through a basket of injectors before Cat changed the H pump and cleaned the head

Assuming it is a Heui and not the C6.6 common rail engine. the first thing to look for when you have these sort of issues is to check the filter in the fuel return line check valve at the back of the head. if this has any metallic debris tech services asked us to remove the cover on the Heui pump and check solenoid for metal build up. if any metal was found the Heui pump needed to be replaced with the injectors and the system flushed out with a special procedure.
Just a note of caution for the C6.6 engine. if you undo the high pressure fuel lines going to the injectors Cat will void any warranty unless you replace the fuel lines with new. The fuel lines are intended to be single use only. repeated loosing and tighting of the fuel lines causes the fuel lines to fracture and allow metal to enter the high pressure fuel system causing damage.
when following the fuel system testing procedures special fuel line torqueing procedures are used to allow reuse of fuel lines
Mark

 

[20/80]

i could be wrong but I was under the impression that all the 12M2 ran the C9.3 engine and the 12M early engines were C6.6 and the later 12M was the C7 .is it possible that the wrong valve set procedure was used between the C6.6 and the C7 engine as the valve setting procedure for the C6.6 is completely different from standard
Mark

I remember looking at the identifying tag when it first came and it said C7, i'm pretty sure its a 12m2 but I could be mistaken it might be a 12m, I will check.

 

[20/80]

Assuming it is a Heui and not the C6.6 common rail engine. the first thing to look for when you have these sort of issues is to check the filter in the fuel return line check valve at the back of the head. if this has any metallic debris tech services asked us to remove the cover on the Heui pump and check solenoid for metal build up. if any metal was found the Heui pump needed to be replaced with the injectors and the system flushed out with a special procedure.
Just a note of caution for the C6.6 engine. if you undo the high pressure fuel lines going to the injectors Cat will void any warranty unless you replace the fuel lines with new. The fuel lines are intended to be single use only. repeated loosing and tighting of the fuel lines causes the fuel lines to fracture and allow metal to enter the high pressure fuel system causing damage.
when following the fuel system testing procedures special fuel line torqueing procedures are used to allow reuse of fuel lines
Mark

Thank you Mark, I will pass this info on, have you run across this type of engine failure before with the rockers becoming misaligned causing engine failure, failing to adjust valves even if the engine seemed to be working fine at the time.

 

[Mark250]

yes. but only because people that don't understand the different valve setting procedure between the C6.6 and the C7 The 12M changed engines and that caught people out including dealer mechanics.
At the time we were retraining our guys on correct valve set procedures because of this issue
Get a copy of the product status report of the ECM and check that no over speed has occurred .On some early machines the transmission shift strategy allowed the engine to over speed if the operator was not careful. there were some software upgrades to over come this issue
Mark

 

[Mark250]

There was also some trouble with the seating of the valve bridges and they were changed to bridges with a different shape and deeper recess

 

[20/80]

There was also some trouble with the seating of the valve bridges and they were changed to bridges with a different shape and deeper recess
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Thank you Mark, this is great info.

 

[Nige]

If I can add something .........
There is an even newer Part Number than the 339-3397 Link mentioned in Mark's post above. The latest current P/N for the Link is 346-4709.

 

[20/80]

If I can add something .........
There is an even newer Part Number than the 339-3397 Link mentioned in Mark's post above. The latest current P/N for the Link is 346-4709.

Between Nige and Mark250 you guy's are unbelievable with your fella's knowledge, you guy's are a huge asset to this forum, thank you

 

[20/80]

Hi, in one of our sister shops are new 140m is in for warranty work it has a bent circle, I have not seen this happen before not on a new one anyway, CAT is covering it, some sort of manufacturing defect, $32,000 if CAT did not warranty it, down time will be a month, we are getting in to the fall grading now.